Chapter Nine: From Healing an Eating Disorder to Founding a Healthy Snack Brand

This week on The 20 Something Playbook, we sit down with Sydney Karmes-Wainer an inspiring 20-something CEO and founder of the healthy snack brand French Squirrel. Sydney opens up about her journey from disordered eating to launching a mission-driven company that's now stocked at stores like Erewhon, The Fresh Market and more. We talk about entrepreneurship, personal growth, wellness, and what it really takes to turn a painful chapter into a purpose-filled business. Learn how she overcame obstacles, stayed true to her vision, and created a business that makes a difference in people's lives. Sydney's story is a testament to the power of following your passion and pursuing your dreams, no matter how young you are!

Topics we cover:

- Healing your relationship with food in your 20s

- Building a business from scratch (without burning out)

- Entrepreneurship lessons no one talks about

- Why your struggles can become your superpower

For more on French Squirrel snacks (and to find near you): https://frenchsquirrel.com/ Instagram: @frenchsquirrel.co @sydney_kw

More on Sydney: https://www.bristolfarms.com/founders/mtf-sydney-karmes-wainer-of-french-squirrel

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Transcript:

Your thinnest body is not always your healthiest body. The doctor said to me, you know, you could lose a couple pounds. No. Yes. [Music] I was working for Arowan corporate offices at the time. I would bring these protein bites to work and my boss said, "Can I try them?" They're like, "In my Tupperware that I would keep in the office fridge." He goes, "If you don't package these, you'd be stupid." Oh. Meg J talks about the phrase, "The world is your oyster." In the book, they talk about the 20 flavors of jam versus the three flavors of jam. And the one with the three flavors of jam, that company demoing at Whole Foods, actually has more sales than the one with 20 because people have decision paralysis. If you aren't embarrassed by the first version of your product, you've launched too late.

here in New York City with Sydney Karma Wener and we're so excited to have her here. Thank you. Thank you guys for having me. So Sydney is the founder of French Squirrel which are like these delicious Here's the shrine. Yeah. We were actually really hoping she'd bring them here today. So we're really happy about a taste test later. And they're like a healthy It's a healthy snack company. And you founded this in your 20s which is so cool. Thank you. So I'm this is Ava and I'm Madison and this is the 20some playbook. So Sydney, can you tell our audience a bit about you know what French Squirrel is and how it came to be? Yes. And first I just wanted to say how aligned this podcast is with me and the brand. Seriously, especially because um I think I shared when we first spoke that the defining decade is one of my favorite books or if not like in the top three favorite books that I recommend people. So, like I'll definitely talk about that something something I'm passionate about and I I think everyone in their 20s should read it and also listen to your podcast. So, I'm adding that on the like what people need to do. Um, so I'm Sydney. I'm the founder of French Squirrel. We make all healthier sweet snacks. So, everything from chocolatecoated dates, chocolatecoated protein bites, cereal clusters, and date peanut butter. And we've been in business for almost 5 years. And everything is seed oil free. No artificial sweeteners, colors, preservatives, just real food, real ingredients. And um as I was just saying, dates are really having their moment. And we have dates incorporated into almost every single one of our products in some way. It's a really great low glycemic sweetener that is high in fiber, high in magnesium, high in antioxidants, and it's just the best. And I have there's so many more health benefits. Um, but yeah, it's my favorite sweetener and that's how we we sweeten all our our products. Oh, they're so yummy. I'm so excited. All I'm not even lying. Like I've been watching all of your French girls stuff. I'm like, I need her to bring Thank you. Of course. So, something I've been doing more so in New York is bringing samples with me around because I think that the difference between LA and New York, in LA, you're driving around and I'm not necessarily like, you know, shleing a whole bag of things. leave some things in the car and then when you're out you don't have samples on you in LA and here I've been taking samples with me and it's been the best thing ever because I've been running into people I walk around in New York I go oh wow like that store looks great I have samples on me but because when you're in LA and you're driving you're not going to pull over stop parking and then say oh well like I'd rather go home and email them and here I've learned that people. You in order to make business happen in New York, you have to be there in person. Um and so that's been it's been really great. So more that's why I have the whole bag of Yeah. Is that part of why you moved to New York cuz of business? Yeah. Okay. For sure. I really wanted to expand here. Um it was also like personally like personal growth. Yeah. For business. Um but also to get my products into more stores here which has been more difficult than I thought. you have a really amazing story as to why you started French Squirrel. Can you share what that story is? Yeah, of course. So, started this in August of 2020 is when we launched right in the middle of co but basically to you know go all the way back to like actually how I started French Squirrel because the whole business happened by accident like a happy accident but I never meant to start a business like this. I went to UC Santa Barbara for uh college and I studied communication and French and I went um I was part of a sorority and I share this openly on my Instagram which is that I grew up eating relatively healthy but then I think that when you go to college sometimes and you have like all those options and that's not how I grew up. I ended up, you know, putting on some weight naturally, which happens when you when you leave home, homecooked meals, you know, I was a part of the soccer team in high school that when I wasn't in college, like I was so much more active in high school, you know, and so that did happen as it does. Uh, and I remember going to the doctor and I didn't think that I was really overweight. I just the doctor said to me, you know, you could lose a couple pounds. Yes. this guy just out of nowhere like just said it and he said it so harmlessly. Um it was probably with good intention obviously and he didn't say the doctors are always classic for like I've been there there's like doctors like no t so much. Yeah. You know male doctor and it's no no disrespect to him. He was just doing his job. He's only doing what he's like what he knows what he's trained to do. And so I took that and I go okay like let me try to eat healthier. So then naturally what do you do? You go look on the internet you go look on social media and slowly what started out as like innocent became disordered. And I was also in my sorority house where I was watching girls eat things and I'm like why are they only cutting why are they cutting the banana in half? Why are they not eating the like just stuff like that? It was so crazy. And I and and I always, you know, pride myself on not letting others influence me. I'm a very strong head. Um, not to toot my own horn. I just mean like it takes a lot to like We're all We're all very strong. I totally understand. So, the fact that that even like penetrated my brain meant that it was very prominent. Obviously, it wasn't just one girl. It means it was most of them. And you believed it yourself. Yes. Of course. If you're surrounded by it, then you think it's normal probably. And I I like to say that because I I like to make the point that I'm not really gullible like that. And it even then affected me affected me that means it can affect so many women who actually don't have the the like the easier

influenced then like that's the word. Easily influenced. Exactly. So then I I eventually I was you know overex exercising, undereating and I lost my period for many years um almost three years and my wakeup call was when I went to the doctor and she tells me um you know you got to go on birth control to get your period back. And I was like why why I was like why do I need a medication to give me something that I innately should have? Um, and my mom didn't understand why I would say this. Like, it's a generational thing. My mom goes, "Why wouldn't you listen to the doctor?" Exactly. And I was like, like, "Love you, mom. That's all she knows. Again, it's not why why I should." Anyway, so I ended up, you know, taking some tips from the doctor, but then I realized I wanted to heal it naturally. I didn't want to take birth control. I wanted to go on my whole like holistic journey, which was very new at the time. People thought it was weird. My parents didn't understand. My friends thought I was wacko. I was taking herbs. Like it wasn't cool to have cupping marks on your body. And now And now it's cool. But it was first. Yeah. But it was weird then. Like I would like be embarrassed at the gym because I would think people think I like I'm weird. Um you know, but now it's like recovery, you know? It was crazy. So then anyway, long story short, I went on a whole healing journey. I was vegan. I end up eating meat again, going to acupuncture, just really resetting my whole nervous system from all the stress that I had caused on my body. And I started making these protein bites. Mhm. That I would eat throughout the day cuz essentially to get your period back, what nobody wants to hear, but is the It's honestly the end all be all is you got to gain weight, right? Everyone wants to put on here's how to get your period back. Here's how to do with all these things. You got to do this, you got to do that. No, if I'm going to boil it down to one thing, you just got to gain weight. And nobody wants to hear that because that's not what women want to hear. So, I was starting to snack more and in a healthy way, not gain weight on McDonald's, I mean, like I was incorporating more protein, healthy fats. Yeah. So, I make these protein bites and I was working for Arowan corporate offices at the time um in LA and this was my first job out of college and I would bring these protein bites to work and my boss said, "Why are you always eating the same snack every single day?" And I was like, "Oh, it's he doesn't know that I'm on this like this journey and whatever. It's just like for all he knows, there's like just chocolate coated protein bites." And I'm I'm 21 at the time. Wow. And he goes, "Can I try them?" I go, "Sure." And they're like in my Tupperware that I would keep in the office fridge. He goes, "These are amazing. If you don't package these, you'd be stupid." Wow. And I was like, "What?" And I only had my French squirrel Instagram at the time, which is what I started in college to just start like documenting how I was healing my relationship with food. So, I was videoing restaurants, videoing recipes. And um after that, I listened to him. Oh my god. I started making them in a commercial kitchen and then I posted it on my Instagram and I said, "Hey guys, I just launched a I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't even say I launched a business. I just said I launched my proteon. Go get them. I have three flavors and um yeah, and it was so organic and authentic and just and now I'm three manufacturers later and like seven products later and it makes me crazy, but I love it. Yeah, it makes you crazy. And then can you tell me? I love that story. Yeah. So, I wanted to ask quick. Um, how did the name French squirrel come about? Okay. I was That's so funny you asked. I was just going to go back and explain that cuz there's really there's there's so much to that. It's actually named um uh an homage to my French grandmother. Uh my late French grandmother Sarah used to pronounce the word squirrel weird. Like, oh, French people cannot pronounce the word squirrel like squirrel, you know. Anyway, um and so and when I was 11 years old or something like that, my mom was buying domain names on GoDaddy. Okay. Glad to know we're not the only ones. I know. And I was really young, you guys. I don't know where this came from. I did a book report and I like said in the book report that I was going to open up a restaurant called French Squirrel. And so my mom bought the domain name Frenchquirrel.com and she paid like five bucks every single year for this thing. Yeah. Why? I don't know. And then when I was starting my Instagram, I said, "Oh, well, I have this website. I'm just going to name the Instagram French squirrel." Then afterward, when I was naming the product, I go, "Well, I'm going to name it French. It's my Instagram." And you know how many like branding people and and in in in my in my life and like friends saying you know that's a weird name. Are you sure you want to name your business that? I go yeah it's because it's weird that I want to name my business that. Yeah. Well it sticks out to me. It does stick out. No it sticks out to me. Oh thank you. And also like nuts squirrel it works. Everything has peanuts almond sometimes. I also think something about like French squirrel it it also like sounds healthy and like like it sounds like the brand you know. My god, thank you. I'm serious. I'm so glad. And then also, yeah, like people have tried to get me to like even change the the logo or like the little icon and actually the little squirrel in the back, which you can see it's a a squirrel with a beret and sunglasses. Oh my god. Yeah. I'll put in like a closeup. My friend drew that for me when I studied abroad in in Baldo. So, I lived in France for 5 months and this friend of mine drew this little squirrel and some people are like, "What is that? Is that a dog?" And it doesn't matter because it's so meaningful to me and sentimental that like I don't care if it's not if it doesn't a perfect swirl. It me drew it for me. I literally just digitized it. But it's her art. I I don't care. And everyone always has an opinion. I know it too. Like we're big on storytelling. I think we're screenwriters. So the story behind this is so much better than what would be like a perfect logo or like a perfect title. Well, I think that's what makes it unique and I love and I like I think authenticity is the best thing to do. Seriously. And and was this something that you know here you are today with this beautiful snack brand going back to like your university years. Was this something you ever wanted to do? Like I know we spoke about this briefly when we had our phone call, you know, a couple months ago about, you know, being, you know, going into an area of your interest and that kind of leads you to where you want to go. Can you share a bit about that cuz it's inspiring. So like that that's where I'll segue to the defining decade because in that book, you know, Meg J talks about the phrase the world is your oyster and how although it seems like it is a positive phrase and it's it's said with good intention, it's actually very damaging especially to people who don't know where they want to go. So true. You you then open up the can of worms to like, oh, I can do anything. I can be anything. It's like the in the in the book, they talk about the 20 flavors of jam versus the three flavors of jam. And the one with the three flavors of jam, that company demoing at Whole Foods, actually has more sales than the one with 20 because people have decision paralysis. And so, even though this sounds negative, Yeah. we don't really have 20 options. You may think you do, but like when you say the world is your oyster, it almost wipes away 21 years of cultivated interest. What you just said. So like I could go become a marine biologist, but like what? Why would I I know that I like food. I know that I like wellness. I know that I like business. I know I know what my interests are. And so when you say the world is your oyster, people go, "Oh my god, yeah. Well, I could do this. I could do that. I could do this." And then and then no one does anything, you know, overwhelm. Overwhelmed. Yeah. So then I that was the main thing that stuck out to me and I I tell all my friends that when they're like, I don't know what to do with my career. I'm like, find your three jams. For me, it was I have four. This was you know, you know, to answer your question, it would be to own a business like my mom. Mhm. to work for my mom. To become a lawyer like my dad. Oh. And or or work for another company. And and of those I worked for another company and then I started my own thing. I did not want to become a lawyer. And my mom is is in the jewelry business. Maybe one day I'll I'll join her, but for right now it's not my interest. So like I I love food. Yeah. And I just went that way. But to answer your specific question, in college, no, I had no idea. Yeah. I think that someone said to me, "Oh, that's so smart of you that you like went in to work in the food space at arowana." But that okay, it it wasn't smart of me because I didn't think of it like that. No, you weren't making that conscious choice. I was just like, "Oh, I like food. I like arowana. I'm obsessed with health and wellness to the point where it was crazy. I was like looking at labels of everything." I wasn't like, hm, I'm going to make a strategic career move and go work for Arowan because I want to start my own business. It wasn't that. It was like, oh no, I just like this and I'm going to do it. And then when you're in your passion and flow and everything, the universe sent me that opportunity, which is my boss. Yeah. I was just going to say how interesting that you followed your interest and it led you to it being a strategic move without realizing. So, and it bothered me cuz my friend said, "Oh, that was so smart of And I was like, I didn't do that on purpose. Yeah. I was like, I don't that was not the reason. It almost made me feel like I like it made me feel like she was saying that I purposely worked there in order to do XYZ. Yeah. And that's completely wrong. And when did you read the defining decade? Like did that help inform you to get into the food industry? Like follow your path? Did you stumble upon it or did you look for it? I would love to. Okay, after this I'm going to look in my camera roll to see when I read this. Yeah, I want to say I read this like right during the time that I was working for Arowan, right after college before I started the job or cuz I feel like this cuz hearing your story, it feels like, you know, some of that book might have been informing, you know, your decision. Yeah, I need to I need to I'm going to do that after because I said this to my friend like who was saying she's struggling with like her next career move and I said the jam story and it like it like blew her mind and she's like Sydney this is so simple like why don't more people know this it's because of social media too well I could go become this and I can do that and an influencer and I could become a creator and I can sell this and yeah it becomes overwhelming with all Yeah. Yeah. How about you guys? When did you read it? I read it on my 25th birthday. She searched for it. I searched for it. I found it on Tik Tok. Wow. And it was just like like similar to you. It just like transformed the way I viewed my 20s and this time in my life. And it was actually very reassuring because like we didn't go to university. We kind of went the entrepreneurial route like right out of high school. Okay. And so it was really easy to feel like I don't know what I'm doing and I don't know where I'm going and like I don't even have a degree to fall back on. like it it's a scary thing cuz I do think education is so important but it didn't make sense for what we wanted to do which was screenwriting and we also have a background in acting so we had like some contacts in the industry so we felt like okay let's just go this route and see where it leads us yeah and and just one more thing to add on top of that is we published a book in high school and so that's where the screenwriting came from is that we wrote this book we published it and our dream was to make that into a movie or a TV show and so when Ava and I you know when we graduated uated high school. We're we're twins and Matty's three years old. And us when we graduated high school, we were like, "Okay, it was co and it was like the first few months of co A and I were like, okay, well, we know we want to do this thing. Why would we go to university when we can just start writing this and kind of like start learning as we go, you know? So that was what that was what informed our decision." We followed our passion similar to you. It wasn't like, oh, this is going to make us money we just wanted to do it and we learned how to do it. You guys saying this is a rarity to say like, "Oh, I know what I want to do. This is my passion." That's a rarity. And like that's why this podcast is so amazing because most people don't know. But they have the the oyster effect. And and everyone always says too, like, and we've been that's why we're interviewing people like you and so many amazing people is cuz most people don't know what they want to do. And everyone's story looks so different that I feel like hopefully people watching will see themselves in at least one of the stories, you know? And I appreciate the three jams analogy because I was recently talking to someone who just graduated university and they're like, I kind of like everything. Like I kind of like a bit of everything. So I don't know how to make this choice or this decision. So I think it's it's almost helpful to like narrow down your options and go deep in each of those. Yeah. And you know what you don't like. Yeah, you would say when you say the world is your oyster, it's like, oh, but I know I don't want to be a lawyer. So, take take it off the list of of jams and okay, well, what do what do I like? I don't know. It sounds like such a simple concept. And it and it and some people can take it as negative like even when you're reading the books like I remember it was it sounds negative to be like like yes technically I could go become you know an architect but like I'm not going like I could go to medical school tomorrow if I wanted to. But like yeah well even in high school I watched Grey's Anatomy and I was convinced I could be a surgeon. Yeah. And then I was like girl that's not what you want. It doesn't make sense. No it does. So, it's really just about following your passions and interests. And I feel like a lot of people have a block about that because even similar to you, like maybe I'll be a lawyer cuz that's what my dad did or maybe I'll work for my mom cuz like I think a lot of people are afraid of what other people will think of them. So, what advice would you have for someone who has a passion for something that's kind of unconventional or different and is feeling hesitant to go down that route because of what people might think? I was just going to say, yeah, the the word unconventional. That word has stuck out to me because um a lot of people say that about my job. They also don't understand. They don't get how I'm able to go from LA to New York and go here and go there and go travel there. Like being an entrepreneur is a 24-hour job. It's not a 9 to5. And I'm so grateful for the flexibility. Um and it is unconventional. People don't get it to the point where they still they're like, "What? What are you doing?" Still, even though I have a physical tangible product, yeah. No, no. So, they don't get it. or even like my aunt doesn't understand that I'm like, you know, making I I have a gut health um Tik Tok account, okay, which I can get into later, but um but I I went on my own another health journey last year and I started posting on Tik Tok about it and everyone kept asking me how I healed my gut, how um I was coming up with recipes, can you post this, what supplements, what ingredients? And I made an ebook. Yeah. Oh, and I posted it on my Tik Tok and the ebook is it's crazy. It's helping so many people. That's so good. And and it's another that's unconventional um what advice I would say I think proof of concept is the hardest part in the beginning. So like if you can prove your concept then people will stop you know saying things but it still won't people will always say something like the hardest part is the beginning to prove your concept and that means starting and then iterating and I and I just did a vlog on this on my Instagram but my favorite quote is from the founder of LinkedIn. If you aren't embarrassed by the first version of your product you've launched too late. Oh meaning you got to let something out into the universe. launch something and then tweak it and adjust based on consumer feedback. Is it data? Is it working? Is it not working? Um, I would say like honestly stay in your lane. As cliche as it sounds, if you know, if you believe that it can work, you know, you got to try, obviously not to a fault. if the data it's not working. But my advice would be to to just start. Yeah. Yeah. Um and I don't know about that. I love that. No, but I love the the LinkedIn quote and even like we that helps me even too cuz as screenwriters our pilots writing a TV show, our pilot is like which is the first which is the first episode of a TV show. Which is the first episode of a TV show. That's your essentially your product that you're trying to sell. Yeah. And we, you know, you have to get comfortable with feedback and you have to get comfortable with the negative. The first iteration definitely was not great. It was definitely feedback that we got because of putting ourselves out there created where we are today, which is like thousand times better. 10 drafts later, people will always say something, but I think as you go on it, it it bothers you less. Exactly. And I and I find what helps me with the unconventional bit cuz we're doing unconventional things too is that if you and and we've talked about this a lot on the podcast the last few episodes and it's about living your life without regret. And if you if you are going to regret not doing this unconventional thing, then just let that drive you. And if people are if people are confused or if people are giving you a hard time, you know, just remember that it's your passion and you'd regret not doing it. That's what drives me and motivates me. I love that. Like map out both options. Like I do this, I don't do this. If if you don't do it, you're going to regret it. Like you have to go down the path. Even if it's scary and hard and Yeah. you're scared what people are going to think. How did you deal with be like doing unconventional practices when you were healing? Like was that something that it was just kind of like you on your own or did you find a support system? Like what did that look like? Uh that's a great question. I I definitely have like my tribe. Yes. You know, of of my friends who are into health and wellness that that fully support what I do. Uh and I and I try to live in the moderate lane. I'm not extreme like I take Advil. I'm not I'm not like shaming like I'm not shaming Western medicine. I think a lot of the of the messaging on social media right now is like if you're into this then like you must be anti that. I don't find that at all. I believe in the light. I agree with that. I agree. Um, and I have friends in the health and wellness space that I'm so grateful for. It's literally the reason that I keep going. If I didn't have friends that are in the food space, I don't know if I could still do it. It is so so difficult. It's like shared trauma. What is difficult about the food space? Because we don't know anything about Yeah. And I feel like there might be someone listening that might want to go into the food industry. Yeah. And people ask if I would have known this, would I have started it still? And I actually I probably would have out of passion, but I just wish I would have known this just to know it. It is the most low margin business. Wow. You cannot charge what you think you can charge because then the consumer won't buy it. So you have a cap. It doesn't mean that they won't buy it. It's just that realistically I can't make the clusters $30. So it's like the the costs for organic ingredients are very high. Also, when you're first starting a small food business, the there, you know, there are minimum order quantities and then, you know, there's tiered pricing. So, you you get you start with the lowest amount and it's the most expensive. Um, also things like, you know, refrigerated trucking and chocolate and perishability and shelf life. But yeah, in in general, it's the low most low margin business. You I did not like see the light until like the last like year. Wow. Yeah, it's it's it was hard like small business, not much cash flow, you know, putting in money, like all this stuff. It was it was a lot. So, that was that. Um yeah, one time and I couldn't do it without my support from my family, friends, all the things because I just I knew I was like, "This is going to work. It's going to work." Um you just have to keep going. Yeah. You just can't not delusion. Yes. But it'll like it's going to I'm seeing the light. It's getting you can see it growing. Yeah. Cuz again, I'm I I'm very much in the moderate light. Like I believe in the woo woo universe stuff too, but then I don't want to sit here on this podcast and say follow your dreams and it's going to work. Like it sometimes doesn't work and that's okay. And that's why I've had to like cut different products out of the line too. Like we had a sunflower seed butter protein bite and I was so like I was so happy that I could adhere to the allergy community and it was a great product. Sunflower seed butter, no peanuts, no almonds. It was not selling. I had a cult following for this product. People were so angry when I discontinued it. Like they were like this was my triedand-rue snack. Like thank you so much. But and I and I so wish that I could have kept it in the line for a small business. I couldn't afford to produce this product that wasn't selling as it was not it wasn't selling. It was not selling as well. And that's what I mean is like when you start doing unconventional things of course you know the follow your dreams all the universe stuff and believe in yourself but also you got to look at the data you know agree with and yeah sorry and then I was off the tangent. Um people thought I was crazy. Yeah, my friends that are not into health and wellness did not get what I was doing. Um, and now I definitely like the black sheep in the family when it comes to those practices, but now my family fully support my family and friends fully know that that's me and they support it. And whenever I'm like feeling like stressed or off, like my dad will be like, "Have you gone to acupuncture recently?" And I'm like and I'm like, "Oh, that's so sweet." So they they know they know now. Um, yeah. And I just think that in my opinion, again, not a doctor, I just wish that the medication was the last result, not resort, excuse me, instead of the first thing. It's not that I'm anti. It's just I feel like there are other things in the beginning that you can do. And I think the world is going there. Um, and I and I'm very happy about that. Yeah, we we talk about this. We work with a mental health nonprofit and we talk about this with mental health as well. If you're feeling depression, it's often a lifestyle thing that you need to change. So, it's like change the things that are easier to change first or not easier.

Well, that's like Dr. Dog's course. He's a professor of neuroscience. I had conversations with him at our mental health nonprofit called Team and he literally talks about this where if you're going through depression, the first thing you should do is not medication, lifestyle changes, but lifestyle changes. Are you walking? Are you eating enough? Are you sleeping enough? Like make those changes first and then move from there. Like if you're doing the ladder, yeah, like if you're doing the baseline things and you're still not feeling okay, then then lean into medication. Yeah. then maybe go to therapy then you know then medication and therapy changed my life first of all fully changed my life um but no it's crazy I also on my whole gut health thing that I did last year I was on this strict like protocol Chinese medicine protocol and I didn't have sugar for a long time like besides blueberries I wasn't allowed to have sugar um yes basically it's like a a a gut overgrowth and you have to kill it in the body and how you do that is by cutting out all forms of sugar, which was really hard for me given I had my history of disordered eating. But I swear you guys, it it it made me feel so lights on. It was crazy. Back to your thing about, you know, depression, mental health. I have never been so clear in my life. I was on my business stuff. I was like, I didn't even need coffee as much because I was so clear. So, you just cut out sugar. Like, that was really the main thing. It was And it And it was crazy. And I just It it made it, you know, all the brain fog went away. I didn't even know I had brain fog until this this cleared up and um and yeah. No, it was a it was a crazy ride. Was there a reason you started that? Like was there a specific reason? Uh the sugar no sugar thing, my naturopath's protocol that I had to go on to help heal this uh naturally. And I have like this Tik Tok and it's called Candida Queen 444 and it's candida overgrowth which is which is triggered from too much sugar in the body. So I had to go on a whole protocol last year and it fully changed my life and it actually healed my relationship with food completely because I saw again this is cliche but I saw how food is medicine in a way and it and it healed my body. It was amazing. Wow. And so I mean I eat sugar now back again. And I obviously eat but but uh not this is the most pure form of sugar. Yeah. Anyway, sorry that was a tangent. I want to hear about therapy and I'm curious if that helped you with your relationship with your body and the disordered eating you were going through. You know what's interesting? I didn't do therapy for that even. I I This is weird. I I I don't want to say I I healed it on my own, but I I sort of did. That's good. That's the the therapist I work with has a background in um eating disorders. So, we don't talk about it ever because I'm like so I I've You're past it. I'm past it. But it's actually cool that she has that lens in case anything comes up that ever um is somehow related to that. Yes. Do I think would therapy have sped up that process for me? Absolutely. I needed to be in therapy then. I just don't think I I don't know why it wasn't something Well, if it's not in front of you, then maybe you didn't think of it. No, my my parents like sent me to a nutritionist, but I think that's what they thought was they didn't know. Um but but in hindsight, that would have sped up the process. I started therapy right when I left my corporate job, Arrowan, and to to build French coral full time. Okay. And that really helped with the transition like all the limiting beliefs and the stress that came along with it. Um I I'm so grateful for her. She seriously Yeah. I I I tell everyone that they should get a therapist. We're pro therapy here. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people in their 20s, it's so inspiring hearing your story and how you healed your relationship with food in your body because I think so many women especially struggle in their 20s with their body and it just doesn't feel like it's ever good enough. And with social media, it's just amplified. Totally. So, like, what would you tell someone who's still struggling with maybe it's disordered eating or maybe it's just like a low sense of self-love or self-worth towards their body. What would you tell about that? Yeah. Oh my god, that's so sweet. Um, and it's and it like it makes me sad that so many I know women go through this. Um, and it's I would say most women do. I think when I was talking to a friend, it I think it's rare if you don't. It's surrounding you. I think everyone, especially women, have experienced it on some level. Yeah, I think we all have. We know. We all I I definitely have it. Mine has never gone farther than something small. But I'm also the younger sister. She went through it first. I you know, as you watch you watch and you learn. Yeah. I would say that your thinnest body is not always your healthiest body. And so for that's what I would say because when if you were to have seen me years ago, I probably didn't look like there was an issue. Like there were people my family and friends knew, but if you just saw me, they you wouldn't have known. But I wasn't meant to be that weight. Like, and what I mean by that is like if my period wasn't coming, that means I wasn't healthy. Your body is telling you that something is wrong. So find the weight that you feel good at and that your body is supposed to be at even if it's not how you necessarily want you want yourself to look, you know, like cuz what it's not sustainable. I mean I'm just I know what I'm supposed to be at where where I'm happy too. Like forget yeah the health thing too but like in order to be healthy you also have to be happy. Yes. And so, yes, I went on my whole gut health thing and like all this stuff, but like I'm sorry. The point of those things to like heal yourself. The point of it is so that you can enjoy the cookies and the brownies like why do that then? So, I don't know. I just think it's like find find your happy and it's it's hard because there's social media and then there's the plastic surgery and the this and then you think everything is it's I mean it's terrible. you're constantly being fed so many different things. I I really agree with that those like your you know your thinnest is not your healthiest and I mean everyone's body is built differently like even we learned in health class you know everyone has a different body type like a different set point and some people are naturally thinner and some people are not you know like it's there's everyone has their natural set point but I think you know like you're saying you should be eating to fuel your body and to enjoy eating as well and eat healthy and you know do things that'll that are healthy for you and fuel your body and and whatever weight you're at with That is what your natural set point should be. And I also think people forget that our bodies are not meant to look a certain way. They're meant to fuel us and where we're supposed to function and live. Like we're not made to look a certain way. Like I always think about that. I I can't remember who it was I saw on social media that is always like whenever I get caught up in my head of what I look like, it's like my body is giving me life. Like I'm able to live because of what my body is doing on the inside. And I think it just kind of gets you out of your own head too like and just kind of focus on the things that matter like what we look like experiences and memories and like that's what you know should matter. We fluctuate as women the time of the month I mean it's crazy by the decade by the time of the month like there's nothing wrong with you. It's just like your body does change. I also say this to you because Maddiey's also someone like you you you get like when we're working if she gets tired she'll be like why am I tired? I don't want to be tired. I have to work. I'm like you're not a robot. You're a human. No, you have to tell you have to remind yourself that. Yes. Like I'm like you're not a machine. Like take a nap if you have the time. It's almost like it's like a shame thing. You have to be productive all the time. I say that all the time. Like you're a human being. Like either if you if you really like if you're working right now, say you have a corporate job, you have to keep working. Have a coffee or have whatever caffeinated drink is healthiest for you. If you have the time, take a nap. Get your energy back. No. No. You're It's so like that's so simple, but it's true. Simple, but like we forget we're not machines. Yes. Especially I feel like as women, too, like we have a dance background and and the dance world is notorious for breeding eating disorders. Ridiculous. And it's not only are you expected to be an athlete, but you're supposed to look like a model at the same time, which is just like insane. And you're and you're a child and you're growing, they're making comments on puberty. They're making comments on your body changing and you're like, I don't I've heard so much about this. It's a real thing. So it was like so for me like I I really resonate a lot with your journey with healing your body and your relationship around food because I've been there and it's such a challenge and a struggle to you know like even now like 10 years later I have the standard sometimes of like feeling like I always have to look great and I my my waist has to always measure a certain amount or like I even remember hearing Romy Stre who was like a Victoria Secret model on a podcast. I think she got PC PCOS on her period. Like what is going on? And they'd like measure her waist every single week. And as women, like our bodies that the waist measurement is going to change at the very least. Let's ask Okay, I'm going to ask you some like 20 specific questions. Okay, great. So, three words to describe your 20s. Um,

growth oriented. Mhm.

Challenging. Mhm. But also beautiful. Lovely. It's lovely. You know what's funny? We've asked every single person. I feel like everyone's had a completely different answer. Everyone's had a totally different answer. Well, I can't say. I can't remember. But I know they've been different. Some have said drunk. Some have said confused. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. Someone said drunk, someone said. Someone said hopeful, adventurous. Like everyone's had in different ways. Challenging. It's so it's a it's a weird time because everybody is doing something different. I have friends who are getting married, friends who are going to have kids soon. It's just crazy. Yeah, it's so true. What What would you say was like the rock bottom moment of your 20s and how did you navigate it? I don't know if we've already talked about it, but Yeah. I don't know why my my mind is going here I guess but like you know apppropo to therapy I guess is like noticing patterns of like why I react to certain things way that I do like I mean not to get deep but like I guess I was going there but yeah like um the question was what again? What what was a rock bottom? The rock bottom. Okay. So then I it should get deep. Yeah. That's all you're comfortable with. Whatever you're comfortable with. Yes. Like knowing like figuring out but not in a rock bottom in a good way though. Like figuring out why I am the way that I am. And sometimes you have to like look at the negative parts of yourself or negative parts of the way that you know you I don't want to say like my childhood cuz I had a great childhood but like obviously you you have to look at those things and realizing that but that's what's propelled me forward right and so like I know these things about myself now um why I react this way why I why this thing triggers me or why that, you know? Um, so I'd say, yeah, I'd say that, but definitely like an actual tangible moment, rock bottom, absolutely, is when I let the business like completely take over me and that's when I really started to go to therapy. Yeah, I don't know why I I don't operate like this as much anymore, but it was almost as if this business was like brain surgery and it's like I need to calm down. I am building a healthy snack company. It's the food business. I'm not saving lives. Why? Why is this like making my chest tight and like giving me anxiety? And and I I was like, I need to stop that. This is not like it's not sustainable. Yeah, that was definitely the the rock bottom is like when I let the stress of the business take over my health% and then you're not enjoying what you're doing. I appreciate you sharing that cuz we've been there too. Yeah. Yeah. But also back to the reacting part, it's important to understand yourself and how you interact with the people around you cuz I feel like the quality of your life is the quality of your relationships. And knowing yourself helps you know how to act around other people and become the most effective like live effectively almost so you're not like reacting for what seems like no reason but there's obviously a reason internally but like I feel like it helps you live a happier more peaceful life. Yeah. I know why I'm doing this and that's that's that I can now not react that way cuz I know where it's coming from or whatever. Was was there like So when you hit those, you know, like that rock bottom moment where the business was just taking over your life, was there any kind of limiting belief that was fueling that for you? Like were you afraid like, oh, I'm not good enough if I don't, you know, do X, Y, and Z? Like was there something that was Yeah. Um, you know, fear of like letting my parents down. letting other people down, like if it's not going to work. I don't know what that is. Like maybe I feel like I feel like I have to prove myself, you know, I've thought about that. But then someone told me, "I think you have It's actually my yoga treat teacher who I've been all over the world uh with on all these retreats." That's so cool. He said, "Sydney, I think you're more afraid of success than failure." Interesting. And it was crazy. And the limiting belief there and it still follows me. I have to I'm still working on it. I'm I'm not perfect. Yeah. Still 5 years in when I place orders for the business, it's like they make me place orders, you know, manufacturing with a certain quantity. I somehow always underplay it because I'm like afraid of like having too much product. It's like this limiting belief that I don't think I'm going to sell it even though I am. And I always end up out of stock sooner than I than I thought. I don't know what that is, but it's like a fear of like blowing it up. Yeah. And with with more with a bigger business is more stress. And I know that from watching my mom. Mhm. And and how when her business grew, her stress also went up. And so I have that correlation in my head. So then when I'm trying to grow this, I have to remember, okay, I don't have to it it doesn't have to be like that. I can I have the awareness now. I can grow the business. It'll be stressful. Yeah. But I can I can manage it because I have the tools to manage. I don't want to say it's not going to be stressful because that's what they say, you know, more money, more problem. Like they say it. So I that's a limiting belief of mine. Yeah, for sure. I appreciate you sharing that though because I think we also have this notion that, you know, especially seeing you and you've got this French squirrel brand and you know, you're 5 years in. I think someone from the outside might be like, "Oh my god, she's made it. She's fine. She's not dealing with anything." Like you're we're all a constant work in progress. Yeah. And I like how you said you're going to you have the tools to manage it because life's always going to be throwing stuff at you. And I feel like we all should have a little tool kit on how we manage these things throughout life cuz it's like life is never going to be stagnant and there's never going to be anything whether it's business related or family or whatever. You know, we're always going to have things that are going to come up and I feel like the tool kit is what's going to get us and our generation has different tools than our parents. Exactly. I was just going to say that she does my mom I say yoga and meditation and the infrared sauna and that doesn't even register and we Yeah. cuz the mental health wasn't even a discussion during our parents' time. So, so now and and thank you for saying that about the the tools comment because I don't it's not helpful to me to listen personally to listen to podcasts or listen to things or doctors saying just lower your stress. How like that's not the right I don't think that's the right answer. It's not lower your stress. It's what can I do? What are the tools that I can when that inevitably arises? I love that you said that this even working as sisters. We do everything together. We work together. It's not about we don't have problems. It's that we've learned how to cope with them properly so that it's not like damaging our relationship or damaging our work relationship. That's the essence of your 20s. It's like you're learning how to cope with stuff that's all new. Yeah. And and one last thing on top of that is even like Maddie went through some really difficult health struggles and those are types of things that you can't avoid. Like even I remember I would read stuff, you know, when someone you love is going through something like you're naturally gonna be more stressed, more anxious, whatever. And I remember like I would read stuff too where it's like just lower your stress. I'm like I can't get rid of this health and I for during that time a lot of it came up physically. like the anxiety would come up. Like I I had my mom take me to the ER once cuz I thought my appendix burst. Like my stomach was like in so much pain and I was looking it up and I was like, "Oh my god." Like I have like I was like reaction and it ended up just being like stomach issues from anxiety. Like I was Thank you. But it's it's a normal thing like when you things like that. Well like when you have a business like that's your responsibility. Health it's your responsibility. It's not going away. And so yeah, I appreciate you saying that. You know how ironic it is? I'm running. This was the rock bottom the moment that my best friend Anna said this to me and it and I it changed my life. She goes, "How ironic that you're running a health and wellness company and you're not healthy and well." And I was like, "Oh my god." No, no, no. I I I hated it. Like I was like, "That is that's horrible." And I She said that to me last year completely. I I turned everything around. I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm taking a break. Um, not whatever. I went to France to like reset my head. Like taking a break. I'm taking care of my health. I'm I'm not letting this business take over me like that anymore. But it still does. Again, I'm not perfect. I have a panic attack in the apartment the other day because not an actual panic attack, but like what I can't control when when things happen, but like I try my best. We're all We actually literally said this on a podcast yesterday, the 20s. She was like, "My she was saying her version of success is just trying her best and the best is good enough." And I love that cuz you don't know what life is going to throw at you. And I also think we also talk about choosing your heart on this podcast. You chose the heart of going after something you love. And it's always going to be hard. Yes. Unfortunately, it is always Yeah. So, it's not realistic to say, "Yeah, well, I'm just I just want to be stressree." Exactly. So then if you're stress free, you're not going to be living. Yeah. What do you know? Like I actually think stress is a part of life. It's part of life. And there's a healthy amount of stress. I think a certain amount of stress, you know, it's like that classic cheesy like diamonds. You know what is it? Rock under pressure. Diamonds are under pressure. Yeah. Diamonds are under pressure. Like it's true. And if you're okay with answering this, how did you manage the business while you were recouping with your health? Oh my god. Yeah. And this was this was June of this past year. I it was just a couple months ago. It hasn't even now it'll be a year next month. Yeah. Um

you know I actually I I was home way more often than I am used to. I know it sounds weird. I'm like I'm definitely I'm social. I'm extroverted. I like, you know, I went to this networking event and that thing and this thing and then I was on my dating apps and I was I was spreading myself so thin and I was like enough of this. I deleted the dating apps. I only went to events that I wanted to go to and because I was on this protocol, that's why I'm saying it it it changed my life because it wasn't even about the food. Okay. I mean, part of it is it was the food. Yeah. I couldn't eat out for 30 days. I was home for every single meal or taking food with me for a month straight. Wow. And what that did was it actually showed me who my real friends are. Oh. Because if if I didn't I couldn't go out to a restaurant. Yeah. I couldn't go. So it's like, would you come over to cook with me? If you didn't come to cook with me, then I don't know if we're close enough to even like be friends. But it made my friends circle smaller. And so while because of that, it it allowed me to to actually I'm going to focus on my business in a in a healthy way. I did my um I did my health protocol. I was like, you know, going to the acupuncturist, taking my whatever, but I eliminated all the distractions, all the BS, all the all the things that I was spreading myself so thin. Not to call it BS and there's a time and place, but I was like running to Santa Monica for this coffee meeting, shleing to Silver Lake for this dinner, and it did not it didn't stop, right? I I needed to slow down and this was my reminder. The health was the rock bottom is my reminder to slow down. And I I was home a lot and it was very healing. I know it sounds so like losery, but yeah. No, no, we stay home. No, you're home. My apartment, but like I I Yeah. And I was staying home more so and I was like, I need somebody needs to like slap me because I need to I need to stop running myself around. And I notice if I start doing that too much here, it's not good. Now I only a couple days of the week I'll go out to eat with friends. Other times I will make sure like for for instance like Mondays I don't like to go out. Mondays are my night that I cook and I stay in and I relax. And it's good. It's healthy for your mind to have a routine like that too. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm I'm very strict with my routines of staying in. Yeah. But I didn't have to do this and my business only went up from this. Like wow. That's just to show you something. Yes. Like I feel like the fear is that when you take time to yourself, it's all going to go to [ __ ] and eventually actually better cuz you're actually in a better head space too. I know you can lead better. I remember being on the meetings with my accountant and she's like, "You've had really good months the past few months and I was like interesting." Yeah. Wow. Because I sat and I eliminated all the distractions of because I I want to help people. I do. People reach out to me. Can you can you help me with the business? I do, but I need to like I need to schedule it as well and not run myself to the floor. So, anyways. Yeah. No. No. Would you say would you say that that's your definition of success is like taking care of yourself? Like do you think that's And do you think that's changed from the beginning of your 20s? Like what you've learned? Yeah. Yeah. The definition of success for me is definitely Yeah. Like balance. Like I was going to say balance. I I had I had another The reason I like looked confused right now is because I I used to have a better answer. I feel like the definition of success. Oh, I remember this was my answer cuz I asked my friends this many years ago. We went to Joshua Tree and we got like an Airbnb and we we you know and we were eating breakfast and I asked them all to say what their definition of success was. They're like, "Who is this woo woo?" Whatever. These were not the they're not my health and wellness friends. to like my childhood friends who think I'm like they think I'm crazy. Uh I love them though. They keep me they keep me grounded. Grounded. I said inner peace. That was my answer. And so it's still my answer. Yeah. It's amazing. Incorporates all parts of your life. Taking care of yourself. Yes. Yeah. Well, peace means balance, you know, like inner peace means that you have balance and cuz you can't have peace without feeling balanced, you know. Yeah. I love that. I think we can end there. This has been so much fun. Thank you so much. Thank you, Sydney. That was so much fun for being here. We're going to link everything in the description in the show notes so you can buy French Squirrel. Everyone go check out French Squirrel on Instagram, online, and we're going to link everywhere you can get it. And go check out Sydney as well. And currently French Squirrels in New York and LA. Yes. Um all over actually. So we're in Arowan in LA and Jimos and Bristol Farms, Lazy Acres, um Leila Bagels if you're there. Um in New York, Happier Grocery, Pop-Up Grocerer um at Uri, our our kosher date peanut butter is now in Manhattan in Uri. And then um we sell at the fresh market which is all over Georgia um Virginia uh Florida marketing every check it out. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming and thank you everyone for everyone for listening. Thanks guys. Hi. [Music]

We stayed in the beautiful Westgate New York Grand Central for the duration of our stay and it was really fun. The Westgate treated us to a cozy room and a beautiful boardroom to film in and the location was just spectacular. If you're headed to New York and want a place that brings both comfort and charm, hit the link in our show notes and treat yourself to a stay at Westgate New York Grand Central.