Chapter Eight: Following Your Dreams in Your 20s While Navigating Chronic Illness with Alex Chaves

This week on The 20 Something Playbook we're joined by actor and dancer Alexandra Chaves, best known for her role as Piper on The Next Step. In this heartfelt and honest conversation, Alex opens up about what it's really like to chase big dreams in your 20s while living with a chronic illness. Diagnosed with colitis as a teen, she shares how she's learned to manage her health while continuing to show up fully for her passions. From setbacks to breakthroughs, this episode is packed with insight, resilience, and inspiration. It's a powerful reminder that we're all navigating something beyond our control (especially in our 20s) and the real growth comes when we learn to embrace the full journey, even when it takes us far outside our comfort zone.

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Transcript:

And this was during the time too where I didn't know what my future held. I was about I was 18. [Music] But I think when I was 18 and I had these two episodes, I really I just I loved every part of it. I love preparing. I love communicating with the director. I love being on set and having that responsibility. Like many moments since then where I've questioned myself where I'm like, is this what I want to do? I think it's been really difficult for me to admit when I'm unwell and and give myself permission to rest and accept that every day is going to look different. Even at the beginning of this flare up, I was so resistant to even giving myself any compassion or grace or adjusting my schedule cuz I'm like, well, if I do that, then I'm admitting that I'm sick. Like, Alex, it's not going to be a straight line. You know, this like accept it. [Music]

I'm Madison. Ava and I'm L. And this is the 20some playbook. And today we have a very special guest with us, Alex Shaves. Thank you so much for having me. I've known these girls for so many years. I think we said with what, 10 years? So to finally be sitting down here with you and like have proper chats. I'm very excited. Super excited. And if you recognize Alex, it might be from the Next Step. And she's also done amazing work for colitis. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Actually, you know what? Full transparency, we're gonna get vulnerable today about this because we are. I'm going through a little flare up at the moment as we're filming this and it's been like a really great reminder of all the lessons that I learned first time I had a flare up. Um, but yeah, like that is just a constant thing in my life. And as we've talked about, Madison and I have like really bonded over something that we have to accept as part of our lives. Yeah. Girlies with illnesses in their 20s. Yeah. So fun. You handle with such grace, by the way. Thank you. Yes. Try. Yeah. You look great, too. Thank you. You're killing it. Um, so, okay, if you were to describe your 20s in three words, what would they be? Lack of control or relinquishing relinquishing control. Yes, I guess something to do with that because I I really feel I had this expectation that I was going to have all this certainty and control going into my 20s because competitive dancer in me is like, okay, I know that I'm going to be dancing every night. I know that I'm going to have school. like there was so much structure and I think my 20's has been at least so far realizing that I have a lot less control than I think I do and that can be a good thing like so many good things have come out of it and also like chronic illness for example is something that I really don't have control over and so it's been like this journey so far of accepting that and I think that'll just kind of be life do you have anything that you do to help you with those moments where you don't have control like is there something that you go back to to like help you get through those moments. Yeah. I a few things are coming to mind. I one thing that I've just started practicing recently is like what within all the things I can't control like what can I control because like I have to find some healthy sense of control. So even um even today like earlier I was telling Madison I did my first proper pitch and I was really scared. So many things you can't control. Congratulations. Thank you. That's amazing. Yeah, it was so exciting and also I didn't know what to expect. So, just knowing that, okay, that 15 minutes before I know I'm going to do my box breathing, I know I'm going to have things that I can like expect and control. Um, and then also I've had things that are now just habit like journaling, affirmations, these things that I don't even think about now because I've been doing them for so long and those have been so helpful. Yeah. Could you take us through box breathing just for people who don't use it? Yeah, I'd love to hear that. I might need it. Yeah. Yeah. Um I actually today like I was sitting at my desk and I like drew a box of my hands with my fingers. So like breathe in for I kind of have a variety of like how long I breathe in for, but let's say like breathe in for five, hold that for five, breathe out for five, and then hold that for five. And it's just like a nice visual for me. It grounds me, soothes me. It just tells my body like, "Okay, you're ready. You're prepared. You're ready to go. Train change those nerves to excitement. Like let's go." Yeah. So that has been really helpful. Yeah, that's amazing. We got to try our tools. Seriously, add tools to the tool box. Try and figure out what works best. And that's come like that's come with a lot of trial and error. 478 breathing is another one I love. Lovely. Amazing. I love that. And I know when we were talking about your pitch too, you talked about focusing on your passion for what you're doing and what you love, even though you have minimal experience in this particular area of like producing something. And I thought that I think that's a really great takeaway. Yeah, thank you. And on that point, I know that at the end of the day, if I if I like have no skill or like knowledge in a specific field, I know that I can rely on my passion. Like that's what I do have control over and what I can sell like I I am inspired. I'm passionate about this specific project and that's that's what I can like confidently rely on. That's the evidence that I know will take me as far as I can go until the mentor tells me the feedback and I continue on. Right. Yeah. And I think that's with everything too. Like dance, my passion for dance is what got me through competitive life through and anything I didn't know I learned along the way. Yeah. And I feel like I mean we believe in this like pursuing something you're passionate about because in those uncertain moments you can always come back to that like at least I'm loving what I'm doing. At least like even if it's hard like you want to be going in this direction. Exactly. Even if it's terrible sometimes. Even if it's really hard. Even if it's really hard, you know, I've had moments. This is making me think of times when I actually uh didn't I couldn't rely on my passions. Like there was a time when I was auditioning for a new agent and I like do I actually like this because these challenges are really hard doing this. Yeah. Um and and this was a time I might have been 16. So, I'd already spent a few years working on the next step, and I was like, am I just doing this because everyone else around me is doing it and because everyone else is like leveling up, auditioning and like pursuing acting, do I actually like this? And that was a scary moment because I was pretty far like deep into acting already. But I think I needed that to be like, okay, am I actually willing to endure all of that rejection, all of that uncertainty? Am I willing to And I've had moments since then of like questioning always. There's always going to be question. Acting, being an actress is constantly questioning if you should be doing it. I feel like most creative fields are like that. I mean, I feel like any field maybe would be like, did you did you always know what you wanted to do? Like from the time you were young or did it something that you feel like has changed over time? I think deep down I always knew that I wanted to be an actor dancer, but I wasn't willing to admit that to myself until very recently, like many years into being a professional. Like I I don't really share this, but I am considered a part-time student at uft for life science. Something that like Okay. And that's, you know, a a dream that maybe I had when I was like 10 or 11. Wow. And I, you know, I enrolled in university. I took a few classes, but I always knew that that wasn't what I wanted to pursue right now. And I think I just needed to make I needed to enroll. I needed to see and like keep that door open. But deep down, I always knew that I wanted to do this. It's just scary. Are you still in school right now? I I've been away for like three semesters. It has been a while. Yeah. No, I love that you're doing that though. As someone who is very studious and like, you know, also artistic, it's kind of like this balance of like, oh, like there's this route and there's also this route and it's like they're very different. And I also think it's incorporating different things that you're passionate about into your life. Like there could be two things that don't align at all, but you have to like find a way to like incorporate both. Yeah. Yeah. And I think now I'm I'm better able to come to terms with the fact that I want to put my academic career on pause. Science was something that I revisit. I still really haven't got the guts to be like uh to like defer and to actually say no to university. Um, and when I look back on my childhood, there's so much evidence that I've always wanted to do um, like the create creative industries and to be an artist. I used to do projects. I I feel like you're going to be the same here, but I used to do like science and English projects with video. Like I would try and make it a video. I want to direct it. I want to star in it. Like any any way that I could perform, right? And so I'm like, well, of course I wanted to do this. Yeah. And I always joke like we were obsessed. We were kind of we always joke we were video star girls. videos. Yeah. And we were like, they always joke that we were our dad's little boys. Like we were the only ones like we loved action movies. Like we loved Mission Impossible. So El and I when we were younger had this little like camcorder and we made like an action movie on our front lawn. We were like rolling around. Slice back in the day. Yes. Okay. That's iconic. I'm sorry. I need to see this. I don't know where it is. I wish we still had it. The first movie. It might be on grand and grandpa's computer. Yeah. like when you're somewhere in the archives when you're young you're like using everyone all your parents' computers like I don't know where it went. That's even with video stars. I did save a lot on my Dropbox. Thank goodness. Yeah, those are those are iconic and and for me it's just like such great evidence that I really enjoyed doing this it and at the time it wasn't for anyone else like me as some school projects but also just for fun not for social media content not to. No, I love that. And you never know what you'll come back to. Like you could pursue acting for a while and then come back to it like to like science and when you were auditioning when you were 16 and you had that moment like of uncertainty. What gave you certainty again? Did it take a while? Was it a single moment? Like how did you come to that place of okay this is what I want to do. I am thinking of an exact moment. Okay. I'm not sure if this was the moment but it was a moment that gave me a lot of evidence. In season of The Next Step, there were two episodes, Christmas episodes where I was like the lead and I was in every scene memorizing like long like big chunks of dialogue, having to work with the director more one-on-one and it was a big ask. I was very nervous about it. And this was during the time too where I didn't know what my future held. I was about I was 18. So I was um I was about to apply for university and really during that 16 to 18 years old I was just continuing on like having these questions and um lack of certainty but just continuing on because the next step really did provide that job and uh why not but I think when I was 18 and I had these two episodes I really I just I loved every part of it. I love preparing. I love communicating with the director. I love being on set and having that responsibility. that fear of like wow there's a lot of responsibility here and also the confidence of like I think I can do this and that was just like such a good moment that I continue to return back to like like many moments since then where I've questioned myself where I'm like is this what I want to do I think of that moment like I do want to be a lead on a show like that really provided me with the reassurance that I needed so I think of that moment okay amazing that's great because and yeah no go ahead no it's great to remind yourself of moments when you've succeeded in self-doubt. Like it sounds like that's what you do like regularly. And and how wonderful that you had that opportunity. I say this a lot to my friends like try things cuz you don't know what you want to do. You don't you don't have those feelings until you try something. Like if you just say it, you would never know. Yes. And that's why eternally grateful for the next step because I don't think I would have ever known that I enjoyed being on set that I can even have acting and dancing be a career if it weren't for that show. I think we feel similar like we kind of fell into that as well. And like A and I were played little aliens on the Strain we would have never ever ever thought of that career path if I hadn't gone to that set and like looked at every like you know so you see the director like there's so much that goes into it and you're kind of like opened up this whole world is kind of opened up and you're kind of like oh there's so much to do within this space. El and I were saying too like our best friends on that set were like 40-year-old men. They were like our dad, like our set dads. Like they did our prosthetics. They were our prosthetic. So we spent like probably eight hours in the chair with them when we would go. And so it was like they were playing like8s music. They were giving us pop rocks. It was like it was just like the best experience. They were the sweetest people ever. And we just wouldn't have known if we didn't go for that. Yeah. So if you don't know, you got to try things. Just say yes. Just say yes to opportunities. I love that. Okay. On that point too, I really did feel um such a a sense of like belonging on set and going into it at 14, I didn't have like a solid friend group and so young. Yeah. And to be on set and of course I bonded so closely with the cast, but also the crew. I really enjoyed talk about it. No one talks about it. So whether it be hair and makeup, you're sitting there for hours like you you form friendships with people of all ages and experiences and that was really special, too. Oh, it's so much fun. like no one no I feel like no one thinks about the crew there's so many people behind the camera to hang out with like a and I cuz also the aliens we push in my face um like we were aliens so like you'd be working with different kids all the time so like we didn't really have the same kids all the time like a and I were kind of there together but the crew was always there so you just kind of you bond in love with them yeah and you always said too that on backstage that that's what turned you on to writing similar to you Alex cuz when I so I I didn't even know what a screenwriter, director. Full disclosure, I had no idea what any of that was. And when I I remember filming the first episode on backstage and I had a moment where the director was direct, you know, directing me to do the stuff and he's like, "Okay, whenever you're ready, you know, do your thing." And I had a moment where I was like, "Oh, he like trusts me to do my job." Oh my god. So I don't have to like cuz in the dance world it was you know you're constantly proving yourself and I feel like there's so much pressure and doubt even though I was like way more qualified in that world of dance than I ever was in acting but the irony was that acting because it was this professional environment they trusted me and then I trusted myself and it really grew my confidence. Yeah. to have that respect as a young person was really valuable, especially when that's all I wanted. Like when I was younger, I wanted to be taken seriously as a male, like as a collaborator. Uh even though Yeah. you're 14 and like maybe you shouldn't be, but as an actor, like we were given that opportunity and that was Yeah. Yeah. Going back to the 20s, have you ever felt behind? All the time. All the time. Like I I think I'm getting better at the self-t talk to like talk myself out of it and like I said about the journaling and habits like I have to write every day what are my wins like what boxes did I check yes because I I just know that that's what works for me otherwise my mind will point to all the things that I haven't done so do you write down specifically like every day what what wins you had I actually just recently got um one of those dotted journals off of Amazon and every day I write down the little even if it's like I did my laundry I'm like good for I did that. I need the small wins, you know. And apparently um I'm not good with the science stuff, but apparently it ticks off something in your brain like some kind of like serotonin. Don't know if that's the right word. Something like that. It releases something in your brain. Even if it's small, but like that little check mark of like I did that. You need that. Yeah, I believe it. I also think I mean my only experience is in the film and TV industry, but you kind of have to like we're not just actors, not just dancers. the producing the stuff. So, there is so much opportunity and I've tried to work on accepting the fact that there is always going to be something that I can't do. Yeah. Like I would love to post more on YouTube. I would love to like be more consistent on social media, but I know that I can't do everything. So, I'm going to also be like, what am I willing to sacrifice? Like be super intentional about what I'm not doing so that I don't have to feel the guilt or regret of like I didn't do that. Well, no, I intentionally chose that I'm not doing that right now. Is that okay? that I think will be helpful as I move forward. Yeah. And that's what causes anxiety. I heard something about how anxiety is caused by having too many options and feeling like you have to do too many things. That's true. And I think subconsciously like I get there too sometimes where I see someone doing something and I get anxious and being like, "Oh, I need to be doing what this person's doing." And then you have to take a step back and wait, is that even what I want to do? Like we have to be very intentional to prevent anxiety. Yeah. And then going back to that choice of like pursuing that new agent and continuing acting, it was the same question like is this really what I want to do? So I've tried to to ask myself that question often. And also when you say um feeling like you're behind, I also think of a time in my life when I was in a flare up, a colitis flare up, and just that was so prominent. It was like, well, I can't do what I want to do and therefore I feel behind. And I'm trying um a visual that really got me through that is thinking of the highway and like I'm just taking a pit stop. I'm gonna catch up. People are all out at their own pace in different lanes. And I try and remind myself of that often. Like I know we're all on our own journeys. Yeah. There's a saying in a in a Burn a Boy song and it's like they it's talking about lapping people and it's like they think they're ahead of me, but I'm really in front of them. And maybe that's a little like like maybe it's a little too uh um like egocentric, but we're all on our own. Like maybe someone's laughing you right now. you think that they're ahead of you, but like you've done that before and you're like on your second I'm going to say about that though too is I'm a big believer in no one's going to give you validation and encouragement and all I mean hopefully your close friends and family are but you have to give that to yourself. So you could say like that's ego but in my opinion like you got to give yourself motivation like you have to give yourself that. Another thing I want to say about comparison one thing we say a lot comparison is the thief of joy. Yes, I say that we say it to each other like every day. We we actually we have to talk like each other off the comparison ledge a lot and the sisters were like it's it's a constant. Yeah. And I'm definitely the most competitive of the three of us. So if I see someone doing something that I want to do, I'm instantly going to Aanel being like, "All right, we got to start like amping up what we're doing." And then they take a second and go, "Wait, it happened this morning. Take a minute." And I was like, it was like another thing where something happens and she's like, "Well, maybe we should be doing that." I'm like, "If you dissect what this person did, do you want to be in that exact position anyway?" Probably not. And so, everyone's on their own journey. You really have to kind of, it's easy, especially I feel like with social media these days, to get caught up in what everyone else is doing and compare yourself to what other people are doing and compare your successes. But it's like I find if you just think about your wins in life, you know, past, present, and then also are inspired by the future ahead of you, then that's the best thing you could do. Then stop. And that's why we're also sitting here chatting with Alex and doing this podcast is because social media is a highlight reel. And I feel like our generation is very caught up in looking impressive or feeling really bad about themselves. And I think what the kind of conversations we're having here is showing people and normalizing the journey. The highs, the lows, the ups and downs, the positives, the negatives. We're all going through it. I think we can all also say too that I in my maybe darkest moments in my life. I wasn't broadcasting them and I wasn't comfortable broadcasting them. So, I also think that that's okay, but it's also important for people to know that people aren't broadcasting their dark moments. Yeah. Yeah. So remember that when you're comparing yourself or not that you hope anyone's going through these things, but that it does happen and you're not the only one, you know, but you are someone who is vulnerable online and that's something I really really respect. So thank you. Like seriously, thank you. I appreciate that. I think it's a delicate balance because there are times when I don't feel well and I'm like I just want to show people that I'm okay, you know? really like it. It's honestly like comforting for me to be like, let me just post stuff that I'm proud of and that I like I can kind of separate from how I'm feeling and like the character that I am online cuz really it is a highlight reel. And also there are moments when I'm like I need to post this for my younger self or for the version of myself that is sick and needs to be reminded that social media is a highlight reel. So I try and find that balance. Uh but I think that's ever growing. Yeah. Oh, for sure. It takes so much strength to post things like that and I it it definitely helps people. Like there could be people who don't say anything and it helps. I know I've seen things online that I would never even interact with it, but I don't know if you've seen that meme where it's like when I see a Tik Tok that like speaks to my soul and then I just scroll past it. It's like like someone says something exactly like you thought, you're like, "Okay, and goodbye." Yeah. So there's someone out there who's looking at your stuff and they're thinking, "Wow, thank you." Oh, seriously. Is there anything that you wish someone told you about this decade before you entered it? Uh, oh, I mean, not to sound like a broken record, but I do think I wish someone told me like there's going to be a lot of uncertainty. I I assume that that I would that that it would be an upward trajectory. Like I I really did think that in my mind. I feel like we all we all do. I think I did too. I thought it would just be a straight line up from here. I'm gonna say like even in high school, I feel like for me it was getting through high school and then everyone was just setting you up for university and there was no no one was guiding you past that. What happened after that? What happens during that? It was just getting you there and then all of a sudden you get to this point we didn't even go to university. So what do we do from here? Yeah. This is what like no one ever talked about anything other than school. So what do I do? Well, I heard Mel Robbins say it's the first time in your life where you don't have a playbook and it's like 20 something playbook. 20 something. Hopefully, this is a new playbook. Yeah. There's no right choice. Yes. Yeah. Like like even when I was thinking about like do I go to school or do I do I pursue this? I thought there was one right choice and either I make the right choice or the wrong choice. And and there are even things to this day like am I you know if I go the producing route like is that the right choice? And like Alex, there's no right choice. You just have to try. Yeah. You're only going to know if it's right until you try it. And also, there's a saying, I'm going to I'm going to butcher it, but like the choice that you make, like either one is right. It's just like how you make the most of it. Like there Yes. Exact. I totally agree that we talked about this. No, but I understand what you're saying. And we talked about this recently cuz we had a serving job. I wasn't excited to do that. It wasn't exactly something I thought was going to push my career or life forward, but I tried to make the most of it. And you know what? We met incredible people. We had an idea for a comedy show because it was hilarious there. I also got a random job through that. I got another job. But then you just don't know what that then got me a job because we which will hopefully then get me a job. Hopefully trying to get it all together. It all works out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I can pinpoint so many moments where like I didn't want to do the thing or I thought that it was like um like am I making the wrong choice? I made the choice and it ended up being beautiful in ways that I could not have accepted. There is no wrong choice. Steve Jobs quote, you can't connect the dots looking forward. Yeah. Yeah. Even though I'd love to try that would be fun, but maybe not. Maybe I can connect. Can I try? But again, coming back to that thing I talked about earlier, again, don't know if I'm repeating myself here, but I do think saying yes to things and pushing yourself to to say yes to things, you're always going to learn something from that instead of saying no, which then you learn nothing. And I think what, you know, a big takeaway of what we've spoken about with you so far is saying yes to the calls to adventure of your life because you don't know where they're going to lead. And that's really what your 20s are about and your young adulthood was about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I I can already hear my older self just repeating that to me to to me like just say yes cuz you have no idea what's going to happen. There's no wrong choices. Um that's that's going to be a reminder that we have to continue and it's all uncertainty like and that's normal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Would you say you're starting to embrace the messiness of your 20s? Like is it feeling better as it getting easier? Hm. I do think slowly as the front of love develops, I'm starting to have a little bit more confidence in my choices and accepting the like gray area of it all. I'm reminded of a book. I love this book. I recommend it to everyone. Women living deliciously. Oh, I've never by Florence Given. She's You have to look at her content online, too. Like pink hair, just living boldly. And she is all about like especially in your 20s, like her main demographic is 20omes. just embracing like like putting your joy first and like embracing the messiness of life and like celebrating it. Yeah. And I think that's where I want to be. That's the goal. Um and like we've said before, we're pursuing our passion. Like I already feel like we're putting ourselves in the arena of like embracing the messiness and unknown. So that is such a win. And like I'm just trying to remind myself of that. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like even it could go back to as simple as romanticize your life, you know, like romanticize messiness. Even we were we're planning our big trip to um California, New York to film this podcast and A and I have been having a hell of a time with the logistics of everything. You know, flights are expensive. Like we are, this is the production team. You know, flights are expensive. Hotel like everything. Also, we're traveling, I'd say, to most of our guests. So, cuz we're trying to make it easy for them. Um so, all of those logistics, it's messy. And A and I some days like we're exhausted. We're like, "Oh my god, this is crazy." You know what I think? But but then you got to think about what you're doing and you're like, "Okay, wait. This is Let's embrace the fun of this. This is going to be an adventure." Yeah. Will it be crazy? Yes. But it's going to be fun. Well, even we booked our flights to California and we had one guest booked. Yep. Yeah. And there were weeks where we were like, "Okay, so we're spending all this money to go to California with one guest." And then as you continue on and you're just like, "I'm going to California. This is what I'm doing." And you invite people now. We might have like six guests in California in like a few weeks. Again, just saying yes and like tolerating the uncertainty. I also always say I'd rather be busy than bored. Boredom I scared and anxious and and boredom is terrible for the brain. I guess you could say if your life is messy, it's interesting. Yeah. Could we look at it from that perspective? I like that. Could we go from that angle? Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything you've ever done? This is a random question. We didn't write this down. She's going off script. Is there anything you've ever done that was like for the plot? Huh? Are you very like calculated? Yeah. For the plot? Oh, this is going to get silly. I've never shared this anyone, but there was Okay, there was a time um I'm not a like really practicing Catholic. However, I like I wanted to make like uh Lent fun. And so, this was two years ago. I had just gone out of a a colitis flare up and I was living in Toronto and I'm like I need to like go outside my comfort zone and just live. So for the 40 days of Lent every single day I had to do something different. So like you know eating alone um at a restaurant or like going to a cafe that could be fun. Yeah. So pushed myself outside of my comfort zone. And the last day was wait for it going on a dating app like finally making my profile. That was the final day and I was like you know what I think I'm just doing this for the plot. I just want to have stories and also unfortunately my main motivation was like I just want to know what it feels like to go on dates so that as an actor I know that feeling that feeling like I need to know for the work for the career this is for work. Yeah. So I feel like that was that was like my most spontaneous self into that. No I think that's wonderful. Did you learn anything? I really did. I um I didn't meet my partner through the dating apps, but it put me in that mindset of being open to love and therefore like two years later I found my man. That's amazing. Congratulations worked out. Thank you. Thank you. It's tough out there these days. It really is. Yeah. Yeah. For the plot. I really do hope that I can look back in my 20s and say that like the travel that I went on and the people that I met, the things that I said yes to were for the plot and didn't have to be so strategic. cuz even in that moment it ended up being a kind of strategic move. Yeah. What that's a good segue into relationships. Um what would you say is the best relationship advice you've gotten in your 20s or maybe you'd like to give some advice to our fellow watchers? Okay. Yes. Big question. I I think the main thing and this is maybe like not sexy to say but it's just communication. Communication and boundaries agree. ups and downs of my relationships have been because of communication, either great communication or and and like I fully take responsibility me not setting boundaries or like actually communicating what I didn't like and therefore of of course they're not going to know what I don't like. I can't read your mind unfortunately. Yeah, I'm reading a book right now. Actually, Madison is a great book recommended.

Uh set boundaries, find peace. Have we read? I don't know if I recommended that one, but that sounds great. I remember we talked about um I realized like I have to respect myself and the other person by actually communicating the boundaries. Um so I think that has been my biggest realization so far and what people close to me have either said or like demonstrated. Love that. Yeah. And that goes I think for romantic and un like non-romantic relationships. Communication is just the key in life. I honestly think it's the key to a peaceful life. And I joke we're kind of Are we gonna say this on camera? We joke because we're twins. We're kind of an old married couple. Um, we have shared we've been sharing everything since we left the womb. You know what I mean? Actually, we shared the womb, too. So, I'm like, we have shared everything. And I feel like day one. Yeah. And we joke like we're very peaceful together, but it's cuz we know how to communicate. Like, we had to share, you know, like Leap Frogs, which was like a little game things we'd play games on, like, you know, you to share everything. So, I feel like that kind of like trained the communication a bit. But we try to take that and apply it to our other relationships as well. I also think it takes a lot of courage to communicate like what you want. But it's important cuz I I often feel if your friends and family, which they should, actually care and respect you, care about you, and respect you, they want to know what you want. So tell them. You know, I I I just think it's simpler than people make it out to be, but it does take bravery. And how they respond to you setting boundaries is also such a good indicator, right? huge. Yeah. If someone doesn't respond well, I feel like that becomes a conversation of like, should this person still be in your life? Yeah. Yeah. But that's a whole other thing. That's a whole other thing. I don't know if we should touch on, but yeah. No, the way they respond to that's very important. Yeah. Yeah. As well. Speaking of books, what like book, podcast, TV show, movie has like influenced your 20s the most? Has transformed you or guided you through something really positive? Well, you were the one that recommended Defining Decades. And let me tell you, I remember we went out for dinner on Friday. That night I had like the whole weekend to myself. That night I downloaded it on Kindle and I read it Saturday, Sunday. I was done with it. I completed the whole thing. That one is amazing. Like yeah, it's just um it has all the deeds. I love that one. The one that I mentioned, Set Boundaries, Find Peace. I think Women Living Deliciously is another great one. Um and Psychology of Your 20s, I really like. Cool. I haven't heard of that podcast. Um Oh, that is that a podcast? Yeah. Yeah. Um, recently I just read Dose, the dose effect, which talks about dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and um, endorphins. Oh, endorphins. And I think it's really interesting. I I'm slowly realizing, you know, how much our phones and social media, like how much I'm addicted. I I would love to say I'm not, but I am. I know, right? just having the tools to know how to set boundaries again with my phone and with like um with using like online platforms and making the most of like our natural chemicals. Yeah. I said this the other day to my parents actually cuz I feel like our generation gets kind of crapped on a lot for how much we use social media. It was made to be addicting. So why is everyone so upset with us for being addicted to it? And it's the adults that made it. So, I think it's kind of like anyone's fault. I'm not coming for anyone's throat here, but I kind of am. And like don't feel guilty over being like having to work against it. It's made to be addicting and it's important to be aware of that and to like work. Yeah. We're not saying be addicted, but don't feel bad. We should ask Alex what she's doing to set boundaries with. Yeah. Well, first giving giving me some compassion. like you have to give yourself compassion, right? Because it's not our fault. Um but also unfortunately it's our responsibility like figure out how to tackle it. Uh big game changer for me leaving my phone outside my room. I was in denial like even considering that but did that. Um that's huge. You know what? I did that a couple years ago and it has changed my sleep. Yeah. I actually leave my phone so for work it's like the opposite like I leave my phone in my room so that it's like I'm not tempted to cuz you don't realize like you're constantly your hand just goes for it when I'm like and then I I kind of try to keep my book nearby like my Kindle cuz then if I'm like eating lunch or something I I'll grab my Kindle instead and I'll I'll read try to create I also wanted to I also wanted to ask you for any 20somes dealing with a health condition is there any advice or just words of wisdom you'd like to share um just cuz I feel like you have such an inspiring story and I feel like you handle it with a lot of grace. Well, you know, I just had therapy yesterday, so let me let me walk. Yeah. Well, first of all, I think it's been really difficult for me to admit when I'm unwell and and give myself permission to rest and accept that every day is going to look different. Yes. Um even at the beginning of this flare up, I was so resistant to even giving myself any um compassion or grace or adjusting my schedule cuz like well if I do that then I'm admitting that I'm sick and like and it's and there's still a lot of connection in my mind to being sick and like it being my fault. But I really to all those out there that are struggling with chronic illness, it is not your fault and you deserve to like take time to listen to what your body is saying. And um Madison actually introduced me to like parts in IFS work. And I've been trying to look at like my body and the part of me that is sick and unwell and facilitate like a conversation between that part and the part that is so deeply ingrained in like the hustle culture of it all and just like look, I know you're both trying to protect me right now, but for like longevity, I need to listen and do what this unwell self and like self that really needs rest and and compassion. Yeah.

How can I still feel like I'm doing what I want to do even if it's from the comfort of my bed with a heating pad. So past few days it's been like I can still work. I can listen to like cafe loi music. That's my jam on Spotify. So that will be like a way to make myself feel like I'm still working. Like maybe I'm at a cafe in my mind, right? Um and do work from bed. I'm just continuing to explore how can I find ways to live in that gray area. It's not so black and white like I can be sick and also do this 100%. And can you walk us through like when you get a flare up, how long does it last and how does it affect your ability to have a normal day? Well, that's the tricky part. I have no idea how long it lasts. Um, and that unpredictability like I can't even budget for like the coffee chat plan that I have for in 2 weeks. I don't know if I can make it or not. Um, so I think it's it's being able to sit in that uncertainty and also I'm so grateful for my team um of like my my GI nurse and doctor. I can tell them like look this is the update. This is where I'm at. Um, and in the past I've been um I've been procrastinating like telling these professionals and actually like seeking advocating for for healthcare and now I'm like okay I got to be proactive about it. I got to have everything that I need. Um, back to communication, like being upfront with everyone in my life, not only my healthcare team, but also telling the people around meant this is very new for me, actually telling people like, "Okay, I'm I'm still going to go to this acne class, but I'm going to tell my acting coach, look, this is the situation. I if I need to run to the washroom, that's why. I may have to leave early, that's why." So then I can still show up to the things that I want to show up for with that comfort that I would just like best for you and it's best for everyone around you. It's a huge act of self love to do that and and it takes a lot of courage because you know I had a similar thing with my health condition where you have to take enzymes and sometimes you're sick and sometimes you're not well and it's embarrassing to be like and you don't want to be perceived differently either because there's a whole set of stigmas around Yeah. you know, being sick and and some people take it the wrong way. So, I totally understand why prior you didn't communicate, but I commend you for your courage and and love for yourself for that. Thank you. And you have been such a great example. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about how there are few examples for me uh to look at working people that have a chronic illness and how they're able to manage it. There's no playbook on what do you do when you have this like career that you want to pursue and all these hopes and dreams and an illness that seems like it's completely opposite of that working. Yeah. Working against you. Um so I'm I I think with social media you you find those people online who are willing to share their story. I'm still looking for for that especially in the film and TV industry and hey maybe we have to just be those people like pat on the back for you like you were that for yourself. also has a health condition and you guys cystic fibrosis. Yeah. But yeah, that's something Alex and I talked about and I know we've spoken about this too where and this kind of I think applies to anyone going through something that's abnormal at this time in life in your 20s because it makes you feel like you're missing out. And I think it also um for me built so much anger and resentment towards my situation because I'd see 20somes on social media or just people I knew living life normally, not having to worry about their health. Maybe someone's caring for a sick parent. Maybe someone comes from a really um uh they're very low in their socioeconomic status and background and so they have all these burdens that they're dealing with. I just think when you have that burden of responsibility at a young age, it can really mess with your head. And I think we, you know, Alex and I have really had to do a lot of work on ourselves to move through all those feelings cuz it sucks. And your brain's also developing like it's like 20s in and of themselves. That was just hard enough just baseline. Add in all these complications. No, I was just going to say like navigating the anxiety, uncertainty, uncertainty, and fear of your 20s already is hard. And then adding a chronic health condition on top of that that's amplifying that's a whole other set of uncertainty and and fear and anxiety and all that as well. The self-compassion and love that you have for yourself is so important. I always hear this thing. Everyone's like life's short, life's short, but it's also long. Take care of yourself. Yeah. Like long. Oh yeah. Because those saying like life is short. Like make the most of every moment every moment. Do it all. Those are the things that just get me in that spiral like I have to be doing more. I remember I was in the hospital on my laptop watching master class videos like just trying to maximize every moment and there's a time and place for that but I have been trying to work to just be uh be more balanced or just like assess what Yeah. Yeah. and listen to what your body needs. That's something I've had to learn too is cuz you know both of us have started these new drugs for our respective health conditions recently and that was something I was adjusting to with my therapist was coming to terms with the fact that I had time and that I could actually be patient with myself because I don't need to worry and I think that's a great reminder for everyone in their 20s whether you have a health condition or not to be patient and just go at your own pace like don't do nothing but take care of yourself What Alex said, she works from bed with a heating fan and listens to some nice music and she doesn't have to work sometimes and sometimes she wants, you know, like it's like it's okay to rest and it's okay to to you have time. You know what I say too is, you know, just not I feel like there's a certain level of, I guess, hustle culture these days and you feel like you always have to be working on the next thing. I feel like there's a level of productivity and just taking time for yourself, you know? Well, I always live I feel like we have a very great relationship with our grandparents. We've always been very close since the time we're young and I'm very grateful for that. And something I just feel like their most prized moments is moments with loved ones and family. They don't talk about work. They they talk about the trip they went on together to Thailand or wherever it was. Like it it's or even the the small moments. I think it was um Mother's Day I think it was when my grandpa would on the table he would spell out mom with cutlery and that was like my grandma loved that. She thought it was really funny and like those are the things that she remembered. She has pictures of it in her in her iPhone and like it's the little moments in life. You don't always like work isn't necessarily the thing you're going to remember. It's important to work and it's important to have passions and work towards those things but to take time to yourself and just relax and live like that's important. Yeah. And that's reminded me recently, you know, people always ask like, "Oh, what are you up to? How's work?" The focus is always on like what's happening and like success being around work. But recently, and I've been able to finally like vocalize it. Even though I may not have external success in work, I feel like I found this level of success in personal life that feels so fulfilling and I've never had before. Like I have I'm I'm really grateful for the people that are surrounding me and like my circle. And in the past, I would not have been able to celebrate that or like even achieve that because I was so career focused. And I think I need to remind myself that's a win even if it's not for added to LinkedIn. And that's a great productivity to me. I know friends, having a good social circle, developing those good relationships, you know, in your 20s is productive. That's the foundation of your life. If you have a good relationship with yourself and your inner circle, like all that other stuff that's going to change with work, it's not going to impact you as much. Yeah. Yeah. I talk about that too. I'm again very grateful. I have amazing friends, family, and relationship with my sisters and hanging out with them like even if you don't have a partner, like hanging having good people in your life to be with and spend time with outside of the stresses of work. And I'm a very career focused person. I think we all are. We all love to work and we're very passionate and that's okay. But it's really great to have the balance, the work life balance. I know everyone talks about that, but it's a real thing. There's a reason it's got to find it. Yeah. And this is kind of a little bit of a random question, but in your 20s, is there any kind of crazy financial mistake you've ever made that you've learned from that maybe you're like to our audience like don't do that. Okay, this is this is general, but this is what comes to mind. All of my purchases that I've regretted have to do with me trying to fill the the dissatisfaction in myself. Like, uh, I'm I should probably buy that new Sephora kit because that'll make me that that'll like make me feel enough. It's always like the bucket in my closet of beauty products probably speaks like that just answers the question, right? It speaks for itself. that um like to be honest I've I've worked with personal trainers. I'm like I actually do have a good understanding of my body and like you know maybe for some for some people that's really beneficial but for me it was just the feeling of putting money towards something to to make myself feel like I was enough and that I was doing something. That's usually where my financial decisions have gone wrong. So I'm thinking fitness, beauty, uh clothes, a lot of stuff that I never end up using. H but in the moment it feels really good to feel like I'm doing something and that's exactly what they want. I can I can totally want from you cuz I feel like this might sound silly but I feel like my sense of fashion has been like a journey. I remember when I was 17 or 18. Yeah. Co had hit and I was looking at other people to try to find like what I should buy and then I was kind of like oh well Haley Bieber's wearing this like let me try it on. It looked terrible. I spent way too much money and now I have all these crop tops in my closet that I'm not wearing cuz I have an embarrassing purchase story from my 20s and I got five pairs of the same leather pants. Five. Five. Did I need five? No, I got them in five different shades. Ah, yeah. Taupe, sand, brown, green, and burgundy. And do those pants look good on me and flatter my figure? No, they don't. How many times have I worn those pants? maybe three times in the past like 5 years. It was co I I have a bit of a get like everyone made bad purchasing decisions and I bought like a whole wardrobe of work wear but I was like but she was at home I think psych psychologically my brain was like I want to feel you know the job you want like yeah I remember you had one pair of green sweatpants terrible and then everything else was like the leather pants. You know what was funny too is that I would pair my green sweatpants with like my work clothes. Like I was so out of it that I was my green sweatpants will go with my green blazer and I'm like what? Yes. The clothing purchases where like I see one thing on the mannequin like wa that's beautiful but it's not really wearable. Yeah. So again I was going to come back to this is that you have to be mindful of what you're purchasing. Are you doing it for some other reason that you saw online or are you doing it because you actually need it and want it genuinely. If you genuinely want it, you feel like you're going to get a good use out of it, then okay, you can justify that. And I think you guys sleep on your purchasing decisions, which I think is really smart. I do. But you know what? For me, there like to a point I sleep on purchases until it's sold out and like out of heartbroken. I've done that. Terrible. I've done that. So, I'm trying to find a balance. And then also like the reverse answer to this is I've spent money on beauty products when I've um like I'm thinking when I was in the hospital again I really wanted to feel confident and I did rely on makeup and skinare and it was really fun and it was a hobby and it made me feel good and in that moment I don't regret those purchases. Yeah. So I think it depends on your circumstances and like you said what you need, what you want and why you're buying it. If you're buying it for yourself, you're like I want to feel good and I want to put this on. Fine. Yeah, totally fine. This is one more question I really want to ask Alex. Um, which is, what's one fear of failure that used to seem huge but now feels small in hindsight cuz I feel like that happens. That's a great question. Fear of failure. Okay, my mind's going to networking stuff for getting a little career focused again. Something that used to be really scary is like putting yourself out there. So whe

is the photo okay is the okay and now I just post like I I just do it and I don't have to think um I I mean I I put intention into it but I don't have to ask for reassurance. I think of networking. I didn't even know that world. I didn't even know that it existed and that I needed to be a part of it. And there's such a lack of education around that in the arts world. Like I have a friend who went to NYU which is like super prestigious and she said that she luckily discovered this program that helped people with networking and she's she literally told me if I didn't discovered that I I wouldn't be working I wouldn't even be in the and I don't know if it's different in university but even like I took business courses in high school no one ever mentioned networking. No. No. So it's very important whoever you are I think whatever industry industries. Yeah. So that has been huge now being able to send an email to a producer like oh yeah and like if they say no it's okay. I'm so happy for you for that. And truly it is because of the people you surround yourself with like Madison like truly you sharing your own stories and how you've been able to do it. It it helps empower others to do the same. And so on that point, another thing is being willing to be vulnerable. Like huge lesson going into my 20s because previously I was like, I need to show everyone that I've got it and that I'm capable and therefore I can't be vulnerable. And it's it's been really nice to challenge that. Yeah. And to have evidence like, oh, it's actually fun being vulnerable and like you get um Yeah. You can even like if you're vulnerable with someone, you can connect on a deeper level. So there's been like so much growth there. I feel the same. And I feel like some of the things that I've said to even just friends at coffee that felt maybe a bit scary and vulnerable always ended up connecting more than I thought I would. You end up connecting on those things. You don't have to be perfect to get connection. You don't have to be perfect to get opportunities. Perfectionism is a lie. Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing I would love to tell my younger self. That's not a good thing. Don't celebrate it. Yeah. And back to networking quick. I was just going to say how important it is to promote yourself and advocate for yourself, especially in this day and age, like like you said, like being able to just post online or send an email to a producer. They're not going to find you. You have to advocate for yourself. Yeah. Awesome. And I'm I know I said I don't know if I said those last questions, but I have one more. Just one more I want to ask. No, she's staying on top of this. Yeah. What is a major setback you faced and how did you overcome it? Okay. Major setback. This is in my 20s cuz I have a setback in my teenagers, but another that's for another day. Um, yeah. I I mean, I've referenced that I was in and out of the hospital. And so, I had a flare up during CO and it was when I I remember just turning 20 and I was like, I don't want to celebrate my birthday cuz I can only have liquids. Like, what's what's the point of celebrating? Um, and some of those feelings are kind of flooding in now with this this flare up currently. Um, and I think it took me a lot to understand that I had a life outside of my work because at that point we weren't filming. I was just at home. I didn't have the confidence to post cuz I was so anxious about what people would think. And I just like sat there like what what's my purpose? What am I supposed to do? And I think since then, I'm so proud of the friendships that I've made and like my like I said, the success in my personal life. And so I think going back to your question, remind me if I'm staying on track, but but I learned like that there's success outside of work. And that's still something I need to remind myself of. But um it's been really like freeing to to be able to have that fulfillment outside of outside of work. I feel like success in your personal life can help you with those setbacks in any part of your life. Yeah. Like I think of in the hospital some of my closest friends came to visit me and like wow this is what it's like to like have those friends and those are friends that like I didn't keep up communication with beforehand cuz I was so busy working. Um and now it's just like I have these habits that in terms of connecting with people and and calling and it's been so fulfilling. Yeah. Is there something you think should be normalized about the 20s that isn't? H

going back to our conversations that we've already had, I think I think we've we've tackled that in terms of like the trajectory not being linear. Yeah. Um extremely not linear. Overlinear. Like if I'm thinking of my 30-year-old self now talking, I'm going to pretend to be 30-year-old Alex. It's not going to be a straight line. accept it. And also like we said, there's no right decision. I just want you to explore your explore your curiosities. This is the time to do that. Celebrate taking risks. Like Alex is not a risk taker. We know this. However, I'm in a career that is uh risky. It's very risky. There's lack of certainty. So like that's already evidence that I can actually take on more risk and I have more resilency than I think. Yeah. So like use that use that as a skill. Use that as evidence to be able to take on your next thing. There's so much evidence already that like I can do it and if there isn't then I can do it and then I'll have evidence. So just like being able to take steps forward even with that uncertainty like not not I don't do the work so that I can eradicate uncertainty like I just know it exists and I know that anxiety is there but it's about working with it. Yes. Very well said. Beautiful. Well said. I think we're going to leave it on there. Mic drop might literally I mean don't drop the mics. We might have to do a part two with Alex because that was wonderful. No, seriously. I love you girls. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. It's a beautiful day here in Toronto. The sun is out. Alex is here. It's been a good day. She is the sun. She brought it today. She brought all the lovely girls. Seriously, I think this is so great to be able to have a resource for 20ome things and those younger that are like looking for advice from big sisters. Like you're doing it. Thank you. But even you shared so much with us today. Like thank you. You learned so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Like, share, subscribe, share this with a 20some you know who you think could benefit from this conversation. Yeah. Thank you, Alex. Thank you so much. [Music]