M.A.E. Chats: When things don’t go to plan, you’re learning not failing.

In this episode of M.A.E. Chats, we explore the concept that when things don't go to plan, it's an opportunity for growth and development, rather than failure. By adopting a growth mindset, we can approach problem solving in a more effective way, learning from our mistakes and using them as a chance to improve and refine our approach. This mindset is essential for personal development, as it allows us to stay resilient and motivated, even in the face of setbacks. By shifting our perspective and focusing on the learning process, we can turn obstacles into opportunities for growth, and develop the skills and confidence we need to succeed. Tune in to learn more about how to cultivate a growth mindset and approach problem solving in a more positive and productive way.

The 20's is all about trying and failing, and trying all over again. But what we don't recognize is that these aren't failures, they're learnings! Madison, Ava and Elle talk about their rollercoaster experience in the screenwriting industry and how important every 'failure' has been to get them where they are today.

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M.A.E. Chat from last week: https://www.youtube.com/live/FJfwF3tyk5c?si=iqTHTW1UepjlVvdb

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Transcript:

Hello. Hello. This is Madison, Ava, and I'm L. And this is a chat of the 20something playbook times team, teaching everyone about mental health, which we also uh work at. And today we're going to talk about feeling like a failure in your creative journey or when you're pursuing your passions. Basically, doing something that's all on you to make happen. Yes. our our founder of team um brought this up to us very kindly the other day saying that she thought that we dealt with failure very well because we are screenwriters and um when you're trying to make a project that takes millions and millions of dollars to make you get a lot of nos it's not an easy feat and I think more what she was saying was that we don't perceive it as failure and and we we really don't and I think that um it's one of those things where it's like we just keep going and and we, you know, bury your ego. Yeah. And when you see things in the entertainment industry, a lot of times, like we've been working on this since we were uh, I don't know, like almost 10 years now. Yeah. And you see a lot of times with anything, a 10 year overnight success can appear like, you know, an overnight success. When really, you know, whoever's achieved success, I'm sure you can think of someone that you admire and that you like to get there. M 99.9% of the time that person had to really put in the work over decades. Yeah. And we we were discussing that often times you don't see the journey behind that when someone especially I think in the entertainment. So that's what we're going to take you guys on today. A little bit of that. Well, yeah. And I think like um we were just saying like you know we look at some of our favorite directors you know writers like Greta Gerwig is one that we think of a lot. love her and we I don't know if we just haven't seen these videos but we haven't seen we've seen a lot of her successes and we've heard a lot about her success and her stories of success but you don't really hear much about the grind before that our own I think just like even we talked about this with Matt Damon Ben Affleck like I remember listening to people want to hear the success yeah like I want and I totally get that but I want to hear about like goodwill hunting like what were the failures that they encountered in the process of making the movie let's give them a few examples of what we've encountered well it's I I I was just going to say too that it's um we haven't had our fair failure we haven't had our fairy tale ending yet, but we're still having a good time and we're still learning a lot and I feel very grateful for how far we've come in the past 5 years, even though we haven't had our fairy tale. Yeah. And and honestly, when I look back to 5 years ago, we barely knew what we were doing. And we were learning how to screenwrite from books, articles, all of that kind of stuff. I did not there's this phrase exposition or not a phrase it's a word exposition which is very important in writing. It took me now it makes sense to it took me way too long to grasp that concept but and I think something we want to talk about too is that going through challenges doesn't mean you're experiencing failure. Yes. Yeah. That's a big I wanted to say so like we've been doing this for over five years now I guess. Screenwriting specifically. screenwriting specifically. Um, in 2020, the fateful time, um, A and I had just graduated high school and we decided to take the leap of faith and just kind of dive into screenwriting and take that time while everyone was locked down and a and I decided not to go to university. We're like, let's just teach ourselves how to do this thing that we've always wanted to do. We'd looked at books, like I was saying, articles, and it took a long time to learn even just how to write a proper script, and a lot of that came from sending it to people and hearing that it was not very good. Yes. And it doesn't mean, and I want people to know this, too, if you're into writing or anything or any or Yeah. or anything even creative or just anything at all. Um, when you aren't good at something right away, it doesn't mean you aren't ever going to be good at it. Yeah. And that you shouldn't do it. And that you shouldn't do it because like when we first started, like it felt confusing and disjointed. I remember reading. So there's this book called Story by Robert McKe that was recommended to me um by a producer that I had met with. Also, by the way, like this is also something I just want to bring up too that we've done is that like we, you know, we acted as children. So we had a couple of you know directors or writers or producers that we would reach out to for advice and you know everyone was very generous and very kind but at the end of the day like we have to do the work right like those people can't do the work for us so it's not really yeah you may know people who work in the industry but at the end of the day like you got to do it and it's on you to create something great and also a lot of those calls was them kind of giving us reality checks and being like this all happen and like just and the thing about you know any kind of entrep we we see this as an entrepreneurial journey. So I'm going to say entrepreneurial. I think that's why McKenzie our founder each other that way. The founder of team sorry there's a skunk running. I'm just making sure it's not coming near. Um the founder of team I think the reason she brought it up is because um even though screenwriting is in the arts it's it's a very entrepreneurial pursuit in the sense of you get a lot of rejection. So, we always I always I don't know if anyone's heard me say this before, but uh we see our pilot. We're trying to sell a screen like a that's a first episode first episode of a TV show. We see our pilot as our product. Your portfolio and product. Yeah. We see it as our as our product. And you're going to get a lot of rejections before someone buys this product. Especially, I mean, with screenwriting specifically, you're asking for millions. Like Ael was saying, you're asking for millions and millions of dollars. but also with people who have had little to no experience in the industry in terms of like professional work like we have not written and sold a screenplay yet. No. And to ask someone to take that chance on you when you think about it logically it's insane. Well, each episode is like, you know, ours isn't Game of Thrones budget, right? But it's still like, you know, I remember us speaking to someone and saying that one episode of television at least can be like 2 to three million. Yeah. Right. That's a big you're asking people to put their money and um you know sometimes their livelihood like sometimes people are taking a chance on you and I just think we also again people say this in the industry a lot and I think it's really true is that you have to think about that while you're writing like when you're writing something like don't put you know stupid flaky stuff in there cuz you're wasting someone's money waste someone's money I remember reading something sorry is that um you know like when you're writing a novel we wrote a novel before we started screenwriting. When you're writing a novel, um, like one page costs a lot less than one page of a screenplay. Yes. And you have to think of every page like you're look at everything on the page and think, okay, like they have to buy like you just if you think about how much money it cost to a life screen person. Yeah. It was a lot like screenwriting was a lot harder than writing a book for us because of that reason because everything had to be like you had to get your point across across so quick and fast. And I think something like from a mindset perspective that I think has served us well and what we've talked about with team's um founder Mackenzie Drezen Cook um is that uh I think for us what's worked well um and and in terms of actually like enjoying the process because we've endured a lot of failure and a lot of setbacks and we can get into that but um I think the main thing is to focus on where you want to go and what your big picture vision is and like you know do a vision board like we do vision boards on our phone like that's our phone screen. Yeah. Um, do that like every 6 months to a year or or if you like like it, you don't need to change it, but do that and focus on it every day. And in addition to that, focus on what you can control and the action steps that you have and measure your success that way instead of it being through results. Let's give an example. Sorry, I was going to say as well, just quickly, is also measure your success in how far you've come. Like I think, have we made a TV show yet? No. But we have met we have a long way. We have a lot of knowledge. We've spoken to Yeah. hundreds of people in the industry who were very kind enough to give us again a 15-minute call. I would recommend this to anyone. Reach out to someone on LinkedIn on LinkedIn and say, "Hey, do you have 15 minutes to I can pick your brains about what you do?" And people are so generous. We learned 99% of the time people get back to you and are like, "Yeah, of course." And we learned so much from Yeah. And I think there's two things I want to say about this specific scenario. So when McKenzie first brought this idea to us about talking about this, she was like, I just find it amazing how you guys, you know, you keep, you know, it's been a long five years of like trying to get, you know, there's been people who you think it's going to make it happen and then they don't and then it's like, you know, just like this roller coaster of whatever and Yeah. and and our McKenzie was just like, you know, I just I love how you guys don't see it as failure and you just see it as sorry, the process growth and I think and growth and also just like that's the path and I and I think that that's a huge part of all this is just recognizing how long it's going to take and recognizing that it's not going to happen overnight. Something big like this. I'm a big believer in the mix between I've probably said this before, but I'm a big believer in the mix between dreaming big and also having logic. And I also think you grow into your success, like we've said. You know, you become the person that you need to be to make that happen. Yeah. No, you do. And I But but I and growing into your success to me is just like each year that passes when when our show has not been made yet, I think back and I'm like, you know what? I'm glad it didn't happen last year. I know so much more now. I've learned so much more. And I do think that, you know, we're more mature now. We've learned a lot more. And and when I wanted it to happen 5 years ago, I'm glad it didn't happen 5 years ago now. Otherwise, I don't think it would have happened. I don't think our script is very good. My little tip is I I what I think is just get comfortable with the fact that you're like, "This is going to be a process and a journey." Like give yourself like a 10-year timeline. Yeah. I know that sounds like and enjoy the process. Yeah. You know, and I would have died to I would have died here if I knew that like starting years ago. No, I was going to say too though. Wait, wait. Cuz I was going to say after Okay. I was just going to say quickly is that um during the p I think this probably had something to do with the pandemic, but I remember when we first started doing it, I was just kind of like waiting for my life to begin. Like I was like, "Okay, when this gets made, that's when my life this is what I was going to build on." And I don't think that was a great mindset. I changed it. Obviously, it took me a while to change it. And actually, one of our guests on this podcast, Gabby Eststeria, said something about that with med school, like she was saying that again, the med school timeline is long. Yeah. And she for a while thought like, okay, my life's not going to begin until after. And she changed her mindset and she was like, you know, I can live while I do this. And I think that mindset has opened us up to so many more opportunities and and I and to give that example of what we've done. So, for example, I have a full-time job. Maddie just got a full-time job and I'm on the lookout. Yeah. And this is a process. I was going to build on that because I want to give people examples of what we're doing right now to push our screenwriting ahead while we're um balancing full-time jobs and the logic of the fact that when you're doing something like what we're doing, even if you're doing like an entrepreneurial entrepreneurial route or creative route, you're not making money right away most often. No. Um yeah, and I think the money right now to us became a really important factor when we realized that money would enable us to travel and network and it would enable us to fund and live of course and it would enable us to fund our dreams and do what we needed to do. Yes. We've been very lucky that we're close with our parents. They're happy with us living at home as long as we need. Um and they encourage us thankfully to follow our dreams. So we have been we're very grateful for that. And I think our pivot was, okay, our dreams aren't going to make us money right away. So, we have to, you know, find jobs and, you know, we've found full-time jobs in various industries. And, um, and I want to kind of tell them what we've been doing just recently, just to give an example of what we've been doing on the side to push this forward while we have full-time jobs. So, right now, we've been reaching out to literary agents, literary men, measures, and agents. Yes. Yes. You want me to talk about it? Well, we don't talk about it a lot, but I just want to kind of I don't know. I just I don't like saying like, "Oh, I do this." And not get into detail. So, it's like, let's just give them a little bit of detail. Whether it helps or not, I don't know, but just give them a little bit. Wait, so we have to give them a little bit of background first. No, I was just going to say quickly bit of background. Again, we've been developing this script for 5 years now. But I kind of want to like I think we should talk about the obstacles and setbacks and rejections and failures so that they know that we sent an early version of it to an agency in Yeah. Let's let's let's just like briefly just so you know like where we came from cuz Yeah. And I will keep it brief. So like 2020 we started reading books about screenwriting. I literally had moments where I was like why is this not processing in my head? Am I dense? Three years later. Three years later I thought I was dense too. Actually, no, not 3 years later, like probably a year and a half, two years later. We write, you know, what we think is the best we can do at that point in time. And we were lucky enough that weworked our way to getting a literary manager reading it. And and they were at actually quite a good agency. Um, and we had, you know, our first weren't interested in in um words. Um, they weren't interested in representing us representing us. They weren't, but we had they were going to give us feedback, which is just as important. was fun because it was like, you know, you think about I remember reading screenwriting books and being so excited about the idea of sharing our script in Hollywood and, you know, meeting with managers and agents and like we had an experience that was our experience of like we had a call and like had to sell ourselves on the call and they said yes to reading our script and then you know that was like the first I think experience of we were like this is it. Yeah. We're in. Yeah. And then they got back to us like oh no bites on your script. silly. They they passed on it and then that was and then you know a year later we got in touch with another agent and we thought this was going to be the agent. This was going to be the I don't know what our first clue was. It took them 6 months to get back to us. Yeah. And so it was you know that was like we were just waiting and we were just waiting like we were like oh we can't wait for them to get back to us. That was another thing I'm going to say. If you feel like you're waiting you maybe shouldn't feel that way like you should be doing something else. Like I think that's one thing to hear back to when an like a manager agent reads your scripts is like two months usually like two or three months not six. We waited six. So again the only learning but we didn't see it as failure. We saw it as learning. Exactly. Okay. So sorry I was just going to say quickly though is we didn't just sit around while this was happening. Yes. We were waiting for them to get back to us. We were developing other scripts, other ideas. Um which again could should we have gotten jobs? Probably. That would be in the hindsight that would definitely be something I'd recommend. Yes. as a creative because we were just like so full out and listen you don't have to because we did the even if it's part time there was part time where we did part time and that enabled us to really develop you know and work really hard and and get that sort I think start with part time if it takes longer then you can shift to full we were very grateful that we developed a lot of skills working with the nonprofit team social media skills all of us are applying for social media roles uh which are very popular these days yeah and it's all storytelling too right like Yeah, like social media is a even like for me it's fun. It's video. It's, you know, I get to create videos that are fun. It's all it's all similar along the same line. But we just want like it's also too like the screenwriting journey was really hard. Learning how to write a good script is really hard. Your brain feels pride. Yeah. And trying to get someone to read your script is really hard. And then trying to get the TV show made is really hard. And then you do 700 million drafts of the same script to get it to even a remotely. got to a point where like, you know, with this second agent that we were speaking with or manager, um it it we kept trying to revise it and they were nice enough to like take a look each time we revised it a couple of times and it was just every time they were like, "No, like it it's just not good." They basically I think it was like four words like still not good enough. No, their words were it's not sellable. It's not sellable. You need to learn structure. You need to master it. And I was racking my brain because And did we take that as failure? No, we just realized what we have to we have to learn how we need to learn structure. And the thing was that at the time I was so frustrated.

Sorry. Keep talking or Yeah. Sorry. There was really it was such a frustrating I just want to talk about cuz it was like a major obstacle was the structure at first and and we like I read every screenwriting book I could find on structure and it still wasn't good enough and it literally got to a point like we were I remember like how did that make you feel? Yeah, I was crashing out completely and angry and frustrated and scared and everything. I was just like cuz I couldn't find a way like I was just like how do I figure this out? And the reason I'm sharing the story is because even when you have pushed yourself past your limit and feeling like, wow, there is absolutely no way this is going to happen now. Like that's it. Like it it we're done. Our mom randomly comes to us and is just like, oh hey, like you know the masterclass um you know app or like they have all those like people on there talking? Well, the Duffer brothers who wrote Stranger Things, they did a master class and I think you guys should check it out. Just like super randomly and we like resisted it for like a month. They were like, "Mom, no." We were like, "Oh, I don't know why we resisted." I think because of the price of the subscription. Yeah. Because the subscription was priced. It's not even that bad, but I was just like finally it got to a point where I was like, "Okay, this is our last resort. Fine. We're going to take a look at this." And we did. And from that alone, we wrote a pilot that actually started to get positive feedback, which was huge. So that's like that was like 3 years into starting screen. So and then again to give some use perspective is we sent that to people. Yeah. And a lot of people said it was very good and that they were interested in it, but still no one bought it. Nobody bought it. They were kind of the kind of vibe we got was that it was like I like this. It's great, but I can't help you make it. That's essentially what every which was and again you could say that as a failure but to us we're like this is a step forward. We're finally writing something that people say are good. We just see everything as a step forward. There's two I was just going to say something I think a key word sorry I think a key phrase that you said is that it's not failure it's learning. I think that's what the entire basis of our and it's normal rejection and failure like for every like I'm going to give like for example like we do we send out we've probably sent out 30 emails or 40 emails in the past few weeks in the past yeah in the past in our lifime that's just to literary managers and agents and we've only heard back from three and that's actually a really high number it's usually only about 2% it's actually really normal so if you're getting a lot of rejections you actually can see it as a step towards success because for every rejection you're you're going to get reading Audrey Knox. Yeah, Audrey Knox is great if you're specifically looking for screen. That's how you say her name. I'm just realizing. Yeah, I Yeah, I hope so. But I was just going to say this is really random, but in Wizards of Waverly Place, this is so random, but this stuck with me for some reason when I was a kid. Um, a boyfriend of hers broke up with her. Was it Alex? Yes, it was Alex. a boyfriend of hers broke up with her and her mom said, "Oh, honey, it's okay. You're just one heartbreak closer to the love of your life." Oh my god. And I apply that in life. Like we're one rejection closer to our fairy tale ending. And I think it's one of those things too now that we have like 5 years of perspective on it. Looking back, every rejection, like every heartbreak, every moment where you thought it was going to be it, you thought this was going to be the thing and then it didn't turn out. It actually does. I know it sounds so cheesy like it does work out for the better and it it it does work out the way it's supposed to. Yeah. And I also think we just for some context this is like our blue sky dream you know scenarios to get a show made. That's like I think what our whole like our whole lives have led to this dream like you know you see like athletes and it's like their dream is to win a grand slam like that kind of thing like that. this is our version of that and it's why we're okay with going through I think that's also why we're okay with going through all these different phases is because because it's just what we have it's what we love to I was going to say too we talk about this on the podcast is um making sure that you're living a life that like with no regrets pretty much and I just think this show is one of those things if we did not fight tooth and nail to make this show we would regret it the rest of our but here's the thing is that most people fight tooth and nail but you don't see that and you don't know that and no one talks about it. But the more that I've spoken to people who have created their dream life and whatever whether that's entrepreneurship, I was just giving people context in case they were watching and they're like, "Why are they putting themselves through this?" Because we love it. But I've even had moments where like even recently like I got a full-time job and I moment where I was like, "Okay, I've got a full-time job now. I've got a source of income. This seems like a place I'd like to work. Why am I continuing to put myself through this?" And I thought because I can. Like it's literally that simple. Because I can. And if I didn't, I would regret it. Exactly. It's not even because you can, it's be to me, it's because because I want to. Because you want that end goal. And and it's something that you want the end goal so bad. Quite I feel like there's c certain things in life in terms of like dreams, aspirations that you can't quite describe why you feel so strongly about it. For whatever reason, this is something that the three of us feel so sincerely strong about. And it's like when it's I the best thing I can relate it to is when athletes reach like they win the Stanley Cup or they get they win the Grand Slam and like this is what I dream or they win and they're like this is what I dreamed of. It's not even like winning some kind of award. It's it's like literally getting literally just making the show would be an absolute dream. I even say too like you know even if God forbid one season happens very good even god forbid one season happens it gets cancelled god forbid that that happened I'm like you know what I just we just got to see we have to see it through got to see it through and and got to at least try to get this this so anyway just a little bit of a little bit of background into why we're doing this for anyone who's curious I think also like I'm going to just quickly touch on self-doubt like let's just You talked about Yeah, you can talk about that, too. So, I'll just say quickly something that I live by and something that I've had to learn to live by. A large insect. Yeah, there's a very large insect flying around us. Um, we're outside. If you're just listening to this, um, outside, one thing I live by is bearing your ego. Um, and that applies to that applies to everything, relationships. This is this lesson was taught this lesson was taught to me quite young. And it I mean I guess this is the lesson, but I remember so we were competitive dancers and I remember one night um my dad our dad he was like he was so great. He we'd like get him to watch our dances and he'd like kind of point stuff out for us. We'd ask him. He wasn't like some weird dance dad. It was like we he was being like super supportive and we wanted his opinion and I'll never forget I was probably like what 8 10 years old. Yeah. And I did like my solo. Oh no I didn't have a solo yet but I did a dance for him. I think you did like a like an acro move. Yeah, maybe did like an acro move for him or something. I don't know. It was really flippy when we were kids. Yeah, very flippy. Um and I remember him saying like, "Oh, well maybe like you can do this thing better." And I'd be like, "Yeah, but" and I'd like have a rebuttal for everything. And I just remember him like pausing and he was like, "Honey, I'm just giving you positive reinforcement." No, no, no. Feedback. Um constructive constructive. Oh my god, I couldn't think of the word. Sorry, it's been a long day. I had a I had a 9 had a 9 to 6:30 workday today. Um and he was like, "Honey, I'm just giving you constructive criticism." And I remember after that it just clicked. I was like, "Oh, he's not criticizing me. He's giving me constructive criticism. And if I take it, I'll actually be better." Yeah. And if you take it and you bury your ego, as much as you want to be right and be like, "My way's better, whatever, whatever." You got to bury the ego and you got to just take the constructive critic constructive criticism. And that's what I Sorry, girl. I'm almost done. Give me 30 seconds. Um, and I I I just want to get this out is that I I apply that lesson to this day. So, we we get constructive criticism a lot from our scripts and you know whether people say it's [ __ ] and they say that it's still constructive criticism as long as they tell us what they want what they want us to do better. As long as they say what was [ __ ] about it. Yeah. Or like Yeah. To me it's like if you just say it's [ __ ] and you don't you don't elaborate and that's not great. But that's just something that I've applied to my life. You can now Wait, I was going to say just quickly though, very very fastly off of that is also to know in your gut though um if someone gives you constructive criticism and if it feels wrong, you don't have to take it. Yeah. I think like the absolute like going the opposite direction. As long as it's for the right reason, as long as it's like a gut feeling and not like a trust thing. Trust your gut. Just be honest with yourself. Trust your gut and barrier. can trust your gut is is just like take some time away from thinking about it. Like sleep on it. Like literally just sleep on a decision and do that feel better. We do a lot. Yeah. If you're feeling chaotic, if you're trying to send an important email and you you don't feel right about it and all that. Don't just quickly don't like rush things. Like take the time. I think like the take the time to do it right. I think the absolute worst thing I'm gonna just give a quick example of like the absolute opposite thing you want to do. I had like a really brief LinkedIn call with with a a student at at a film school and this student had like it was probably one of the worst phone calls I ever had and the student really thought that they were top-notch cuz they went to a prestigious school. Um and I remember like they were giving me advice which I actually had more experience than them but whatever. And um they were saying basically like they took everything personally and were basically like said ized it. Yeah. And was like, well, yeah, like everything's your baby and it's your darling and it's, you know, if someone's saying it's so hard to take criticism and it's so hard to like and it was just like what I'm going to say about that too is is think about what you want to do. Yeah. Yeah. Because listen, teach their own. I'm going to tough love here. Teach their own. If you want to do that, fine. But you're going to be miserable. Your script, your product, whatever you're doing isn't going to be good. Because I'm also going to say this, which I think is just common sense, but think about it. If you're the only one working on a project and you only take your own advice, it's only one brain that's inputting into it. If you let other people have an input in what you're doing, you are taking a little piece of other people's brains, which is just a great point. How how wonderful. Oh, wonderful. And and the best part of our the best version of our script we ever got was collaborating with um two producers who we connected with literally on LinkedIn. We literally watched Stranger Things, looked at the credits, saw who the assistant director was and I befriended them on LinkedIn and we went on a call. Well, and then we went on call with her and she connected us with the producers producers and they they were also the most wonderful people on planes and did multiple like one hour. Yeah. For like almost a year we did like I'd say we did like maybe fiveish at least. Um yeah, five like five. No, but like fiveish like we'd have like hourong we do script notes and do a call and that was a great learning for us on how to take um script notes. Yeah. which we had already been doing if I'm honest at that point, but I'm going to put a lot of script notes and they they the the perspective they why is this happening? Fireworks of all things. Um the the way that they gave us the feedback that they gave us like the ideas they had, they were fresh eyes on our script when we had been doing like working on the script for over like three or four years. We were getting stale. We were getting stale with it, right? And it collaboration. Yeah. and them looking at it gave us the best version and we are using that version right now to reach out to managers because we're confident with the version we have and they helped us get there. I think a great even with three of us we couldn't get there every piece of rejection or every piece of criticism see it as a co-creator with you to get you where you want to be. It's all feedback telling you things and you get to decide what you do with that information. Yeah. So I think the last thing we're going to talk about and cover is self-doubt. Mh. at which Matty feels this one big time. I do I at times do I I have I have brief moments of it but I am I'm overall pretty confident. I think also just ridiculously experience self-doubt doesn't mean things are wrong. Yeah. Um it's just a perspective and I think I also think um a lot of times I say this to my about to myself but self is something you struggle with though. I do. Yes. Yeah. Maddie in particular definitely struggles with it. But I think I I think um don't always believe what your mind is telling you. I think where self-doubt comes from for me is comparing myself. Um and I think I think for sorry I was just going to say quickly is for me I've experienced a lot of self-doubt in the job process. Weirdly enough, five years of screenwriting, I didn't experience like obviously I had my moments, but for the most part, I felt like I was destined to do this. And it just feels like it just feels so close to my heart that it just feels like not in an uh arrogant way, just like I I feel like I meant to do it from like a like a soul perspective, you know, like it's like I it just feels like the thing that I It's getting dark, guys. feel passionate about. Um, but in the job market, I have experienced self-doubt. Just being like, if I haven't gotten something yet, like is it a me thing? I think self-doubt comes from results and expectations. I think that's where it comes from. I think like for me, if we don't achieve a certain result, I start to doubt myself of, oh, like, you know, that if I'm thinking back to like my moments of self-doubt, it's like when something fell through that I thought was expecting it was going to happen and then it was like, oh, is it ever going to happen? It's an expectation. in comparison and I think like I think you can boil it down to me. Do you guys agree that you can boil it down to those two things and comparison? Yes. expectations, results, like not getting those results. And then comparison because I would like do an interview, get a rejection, and then I'd be like, "Oh, well, maybe I'm not good because like Maddie and El have just got jobs and like gotten like I just had an interview and I didn't." But I, you know, it's like when someone else's success makes you feel like you're behind or you're not as good when really like I think But I was just can I say something quick is just when that happens, don't give in. like you have to have uh positive selft talk. You have to fight it and you have to fight it. And I have like mantras I say to myself like um just because it's not happening doesn't mean it won't ever happen. I also have one where I'm just like you know good things come to me I deserve this. Are these all from Pinterest? Some of them are. Yes. But also just like you know repeating in your head. I also think if you put your all into everything then you can actually say I do deserve this. Yeah. And say that about Yeah. and it will come because I think it's also like what's helped me navigate self-doubt is action. So like if I doubt myself, I just take massive action on things. Like if I'm like, "Oh, I don't feel like we're getting there with our screenplay." Like I'll write 10 reach out emails. So I don't know if that's necessarily healthy though, babe. No, but what I do I'll tell you what I do like cranking out on a Saturday night at grandma's house. No, I don't do that on a Saturday night on grandma's house. Okay. But I'll tell you what I was saying that I don't know if that's the healthiest cuz sometimes that overwhelms. Well, then that can get into mania and like you. Yeah. So, that's what I'm saying. I'm just saying from what I've observed from you, it's not always the best. No, it's true. Cuz that usually like I I get So, I actually wouldn't recommend that. So, I'll tell you what I do. Caught you right there. I'll tell you what I do, which I think is healthy. You guys let me know what you think. But, um what I do if I'm experiencing self-doubt is I think back on like I'll give you a specific example, then you can apply it to your own life. But, if you think it's healthy, I'll let you know. But um like for example, I do an interview, you know, I did an interview last week and it went really well. The guy in the interview was like, "I really think you'd be great at this role. I'll get back to you with salary expectations expectations by the end of the day. I did not hear anything that night. So I obviously had a funny feeling. But again, the self-doubt started to creep in when I got rejected from that job. And I was like, am I not good enough? Like I didn't get it." And you know, like is it a me problem? Should I go about this differently? You know what I did is I looked back and I said, "What did I do right during all of that?" Obviously, I did something right in the process cuz I got to the interview. I had an I had a little conversation. I looked at that, too. Like even when I would apply to jobs, like I sent out 80 job applications this summer and I would look at like whenever I'd get a rejection. Yeah. And whenever I'd get a rejection Yeah. I counted whenever I get a rejection, I would like sometimes it'd say, "Oh, we really liked your resume. you're just not a good fit for the role. And then that would tell me, okay, whatever resume I'm sending out is working. I just need to find the right fit. And even me, like I've I've had I think some of it has nothing to do with you. And I've had four separate companies that I've had interviews with and all of them have fallen through. Yeah. Just and I was just sorry, I was just going to say is um that like reminding yourself of the small wins like I got four companies that were interested in me. like reframe it, you know, like and it it might not be like don't take it personally. Four jobs that fell through. So you just four jobs people that were interested in you and obviously you're doing something right. Exactly. Um and I also think again I say this a lot but a big thing for me is putting my all into everything and always putting my best foot forward. Also at the end of it I can just be like well at least I put my best foot forward. Self-doubt is just something realistically you're going to have to deal with your entire life I believe. But I think it's a good I see these things as habits often times is that just develop a good habit for yourself of how you handle it. Yes. Because you can't you can't avoid have you know these situations in life you know you're working you're doing like if you're living you're going to be experiencing self you're going to be experiencing these things but you need to you need to develop healthy habits on how you deal with it. And I think like what Ava said where she reframes it into positive thinking, that's a great habit to get into. There's definitely something even if it's one positive thing you can take out of it, it's something. I think also see any kind of rejection or failure as a string and a path and a map towards your success because from every failure or even massive failure like things that felt like colossal um they've always led to breakthroughs that have totally changed the course of where I was going that I did I wouldn't have even thought of had things been just putting along and I thought everything was fine like I think those have always led to the biggest changes that in the end lead to success. The last thing I'm going to say is um rejection is protection and I honestly feel that way with failures as well. I think little failures are saving you from a huge failure if that makes sense. And also remember no sorry I'm going to really really fast is that these tiny failure not tiny but you know mics are glowing. Can you even see us on the camera? I don't know but the failures of us like glow sticks the failures of us like you know sending our scripts out and it not getting made or it sucking and all this kind of stuff. I think it's saving us from it. Let's say it miraculously got sold, which it wouldn't happen, but let's say it did. I don't think it would probably tank. It would have tanked five years ago. I agree. That's what I was saying. So, I think it's saving us from that's what I was saying earlier. I'm grateful it didn't happen 5 years ago. I also think like I'll leave it with it. I'll I'll I'll end it at this too is just like remember that what you want wants you. The fact that you even have the dream, that you have the goal, the vision means that you can achieve it. It's your job to bridge the gap between where you are and where you want to be. And that's the process and adventure and journey. And like see it as a call to adventure because I think when when I've felt the most drained and tired is when I've lost sight of the adventure of it all. Like remember why you're doing this, why you wanted to do this. It's about the little wins, the little joys and and all that. It's an adventure. And all adventures don't always go to never go to plan and they never work out the way you thought think they will. But in the end, it's like any movie, any TV show, any kind of hero's journey, it always turns out, but not in the way you're going to expect it. Yeah. And on that same kind of idea, my my ideology is that you can do anything you set your mind to. And and for us, it's like we have set our mind to this and just show every day. I talked to and we talked to our friend Issa about this and I will never forget her saying this is she's like the people who fail are the ones who quit. Yes. And that's to me like outlast everyone else. You just got to Yeah. Literally, you just got to keep going. You got to outlast everyone else. Everyone else who quit quits and thinks is will fall off and you'll be the last one standing. And then as the great Timothy Shia once said, life is coming from you, not at you. Period. So if you're not doing anything, you're not going to go anywhere. Exactly. And I think like even if it's small, right? Like if you But if you are doing something and you feel like you're not going anywhere, you are going. You are. As long as you're putting in the work, right? So it's like it's part developing your skill set, developing your product, developing your your your whatever it is you need to develop to be good. And then it's also partly networking, seeking out opportunities, putting yourself out there. showing up for your skill set. I feel like honestly some of our biggest breakthroughs have come when we have decided to when we spend time with the family, we take a break, we spend time with the family, suddenly we're like, "Oh, wait. We're not going to run on empty." Like none of our success has come from running on empty, but it has come from consistently putting in the work on like a daily to weekly basis depending on. Yeah. Yeah, like even if it's 30 minutes a day and you do like one reach out to a new person and you spend 30 minutes developing your product or your screenplay or whatever it is you're doing, you are moving the needle and all those steps are going to add up. Yeah. Yeah. I think period. Let's end there. And if you have any questions for us like we are always open to Yeah. chatting about more of this cuz we have many many things we can discuss about on video you can see us. I hope you can see us. I hope so too. But if I told I told you we knew we'd lose our light. You can definitely see these. Oh my god, it's like red. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, um good night. Good night. Um hope you sleep tight and thanks for listening. Mosquitoes are biting. Yeah. Thanks for listening, guys. Thank you. Thank you for listening. Chip chip cheerio. Good night. And if you have any questions, like Maddie said. Yeah. Every Friday we get pizza from Pizza Nova and at the end of the call they always say ciao when I order. So ciao. I was like, where are you going with that? See you later. Ciao.