Chapter Eleven: Mastering Your Mental Health in Your 20s with Startup Founder Mackenzie Drazan Cook

Join us in this insightful conversation with startup founder Mackenzie Drazan Cook as we delve into the world of mastering mental health in your 20s, a crucial aspect of entrepreneurship and personal development. Navigating adulthood can be overwhelming, especially when dealing with anxiety and the pressure to manage time effectively. Mackenzie shares her life lessons, including hitting rock bottom and finding emotional resilience, as well as her experiences with ADHD and how she developed effective coping strategies. With a curiosity mindset, she has learned to prioritize self-discovery and anxiety relief, offering valuable entrepreneur tips and adulting advice for those seeking to improve their mental health. Through funny stories and personal growth anecdotes, Mackenzie highlights the importance of teamwork dynamics, following curiosity, and cultivating a mindset that supports navigating challenges. This conversation is perfect for young entrepreneurs and anyone looking for inspiration and practical tips on maintaining good mental health, building strong team dynamics, and embracing creativity in their 20s. Tune in for an engaging discussion on mental health, personal development, and the journey of entrepreneurship, as Mackenzie shares her unique perspective on turning struggles into opportunities for growth and success.

For more on Mackenzie Drazan Cook:

MiResource (find the right mental health care for you): https://miresource.com/

T.E.A.M. Instagram (Madison, Ava and Elle run the social media): https://www.instagram.com/myteam.social/?hl=en

Mackenzie Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mackenziedrazan/?hl=en

More on Mackenzie: https://www.wbenc.org/speakers/mackenzie-drazan/

Follow Madison, Ava, and Elle: Instagram @20somethingplaybook TikTok @20somethingplaybook

Listen to “The 20 Something Playbook”: Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1bAA0eOHthyeqJyIyWlcD3?si=Uiv2K4tmRKGHbD6Pns6KeQ

Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-20-something-playbook/id1801522743

Amazon Podcasts https://music.amazon.com/es-us/podcasts/5db7484e-4184-464c-b6d9-706adc37f7d5/the-20-something-playbook iHeart https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-the-20-something-playbook-269958812/?cmp=web_share&embed=true

Watch Volume One of "The 20 Something Playbook" on YouTube: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1Rs9oUYUlEcNigeakfAcHDyKl2mSlAJ6&si=Krq-KY-PoR_uK9gJ

Behind The Scenes | Filming the Podcast in NYC and California: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNaj9QhEOls&list=PL1Rs9oUYUlEf6yeVawHLs6G3UUaj4EACf Thank you West Gate New York Grand Central for hosting our interview space (and stay in NYC).

BOOK YOUR STAY HERE: https://westgate.prf.hn/click/camref:1100l5227F To advertise on this podcast please email: macgregormadison@gmail.com

Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/doug-organ/theme-from-a-lift

License code: BPZMSBJOKUAS89NB

Transcript:

My first introduction to grief was the loss of my sister. I spent the first part of my 20s really heavily focused on my resource and building my resource.

Reaching your what feels like rock bottom gives you perspective to know that if I feel yucky, I can get out of this. You know, I will feel better. I was engaged at one point and I didn't end up marrying that person. There are certain things in my life where I've been like that's where I'm going and then it changes. A lot of times those pivot points are painful. Yeah. But you kind of just have to trust the process. You have the luxury to have time to do you. Yeah. Then take advantage and do it.

We are super excited to be here today with McKenzie Drezy Cook. Yay. Our favorite person on planet Earth. Yeah. Cook. Okay. Um we Mackenzie, we've known Mackenzie for so long at this point. We work together at team teaching everyone about mental health, mental health nonprofit. And today we're going to be talking to Mackenzie about her 20s and she's had such like a varied experience of her life. I'm just We're just talking off camera. She's just had all these different lives. So, she's got sprayed with a bunch of water. Yeah. So, this is true. She's looking good. And just, you know, we look, we all look the same. Ava, Madison, and I'm L. And welcome to the 20something playbook. And here you go. And so, to start off, Ken's um what would be three words to describe your 20s? Oh, man. Um, wow. Wild ride. I don't know. Three words. It's It's hard for me to think of three words on the spot. I think just because my 20s have encapsulated so many different phases. And I think um I think that if I think about my 20s that you could break it up really into maybe three major chunks of um I guess life and focus. I don't know. Actually, I say that but I'm not really sure. I have a hard time reflecting and like grouping things together in the past. you. We met you when you were 23, I think it was, and you were living in London. Yeah. And you were in a completely different place in your life. We're here in San Diego, by the way, just to give context. Um, yes. So, I've lived a lot of different places in that time. Um, but I guess the one thing of course that you guys know that's remained constant is team and my resource. Um, even though where I'm working on those things definitely has changed. and tell everyone what my resource and team are. Sure, of course. Um, well, team is a nonprofit that I have the pleasure of working with you three lovely ladies on. Um, and the purpose of team is to really equip somebody with the information that they need to help support someone who's struggling with their mental health. And the, you know, I think the importance of that is really the purpose is to try and defeat stigma because I think that so many people are afraid um to say the wrong thing or to do the wrong thing. And what they really want is um guidance on what to do and say because they want to be helpful, but it's so scary. And I know that firsthand from um from trying to support my sister. And you're terrified of saying the wrong thing that might trigger somebody, doing the wrong thing. You don't want to hurt them. and you end up doing things out of love that are not loving and that is bad. So the idea was I want to help people not make the mistakes that I made and that is what um came together with team and that is what I have the pleasure of working with you guys for and I'm going to say I say this all the time but genuinely team helped me like I have learned so much from team Maddie went through a lot of mental health challenges with her physical health and mental it affects everything right and being a part of team helped equip me with how to help her I genuinely don't know what would have happened if I didn't have it. Like genuinely, I think our calls every week, we talked about so many things that I wouldn't have known otherwise. So, I genuinely think it changed my life and I hope anyone who sees it, I hope it helps you, too. My team.social on Instagram. Mackenzie has had a positive impact on many people's mental health, me included. I just want to say quickly what I love about what we do at team as well is that it's very actionoriented. It's action steps. It's not just talking about, you know, okay, these are three, you know, symptoms of anxiety and that's it. We want to give people action steps on how they can improve and how they can help other people navigate um their mental health and mental health challenges. And so tell us what my resource sure is. So step one with team was really how do you help encourage someone or how do you support someone? And really your role as a supporter is to love them and to encourage them to get professional help. And once you make that brave decision to say, "Okay, I'm ready to get help." Then it's really hard to actually find that help. And so then I call it Mount Everest number two is how do you actually connect with that help? And my resource is really designed to help somebody find and connect with that care. And hopefully my resource does all of the navigating of the complexity so that you can really focus on starting your therapeutic journey, which is an incredibly brave and powerful step to take. And we want that to be so much easier than it is today. And so that's really what my resource is designed to do is to take all that hard work out of finding care and making sure that you stay in the right care and answering all of those questions along the way because it is, you know, it's such a black box and it doesn't need to be and we don't feel like it's your job to have to figure that out. Yeah. And you started my resource in team in your 20s. I actually started in my teens. You started in your teens. It just falls even just outside. Yeah. even I was almost in well actually you know let's see um I'm also really bad at remembering what age I was when certain things in my life happened but okay it was my junior year that we actually made my resource so I started team going into my sophomore year that summer and then my resource we officially made it a company and sold our first platform my junior year of college and I was born in 1995 and I started college in 2014 graduated in 2018 do the math. How old I was at that time, but yeah, I think maybe 20. Even if you were 19, like actually it would have been Yeah, I would have been 20 21. So, yeah, my 20. There we are. What do you feel like is the biggest lesson you've learned from starting a company? Oh, man. So many of them. lessons.

I think that one of the hardest things about starting your own company, which I'm sure you guys are well acquainted with with the number of amazing projects that you have going on and endeavors that you've pursued, is you're constantly learning new things. And that's what makes being a founder, being an entrepreneur, being someone who's starting something so exciting because you get to learn so many things and you get to wear so many different hats and play so many different roles. True. And at the same time, the flip side of of learning new things, and I guess that's a huge thing in your 20s, right? You're you're doing a lot of life transitions and you're you're leaving the house, you're going out into the world, you're doing all kinds of different things for the very first time, and that is exciting and terrifying because new is fun, but new is also scary because you don't know what you're doing. So having to constantly learn new things and to take on new roles that you haven't had to do before is um it it can be stressful. Yeah. And so learning how to navigate always putting yourself in uncomfortable situations and learning how to live with that is I think probably the most important skill that I've learned in my 20s. I would agree. I I even myself I feel like for me when we first started this journey we had to do a lot of networking to do screenwriting and stuff like that and just going on a phone call knowing if it was coming on a Friday. I was nervous all week for it. That was very uncomfortable for me to like talk to people and get on a call and and have to like pitch myself or even just have general conversation. It was anxietyprovoking. But now I've done it so many times I feel like I've gotten comfortable in that area and now I'm learning new things. new things are making me uncomfortable, but I feel like that's how you get better as a person. It's how you learn everything that you know now. Absolutely. And it feels like to me from the moment I met you, you're someone who has a lot of purpose and passion. Was there ever a time in your life where you didn't feel that or how did you because there's a lot of 20somes who don't have a sense of purpose and they're figuring trying to think, okay, what what am I supposed to do? What am I meant to do? How do I figure that out? like what advice would you give to somebody? I'm probably so, you know, it's I've always had purpose and I've always been someone who's like, I love doing this and I'm going to continue to do this and this is where I want to go. Now, that has changed over time. And actually, you guys have known me for the majority of my 20s. I'm 29 and you're still in it. I'm going to turn 30 soon. Oh, and you guys have really known me for the majority of my 20s, which is super easy. So, honestly, you you should just inform people about how I've changed over time and whatnot, but um you don't need me here. But I would say that I feel very fortunate that that's something that just comes naturally to me that if I like something, I do it. Um can probably think my ADHD that I kind of don't have a choice because I can't focus on something if I don't like it. But um no, but jokes aside, I think think about what brings you joy. What are you naturally interested in? And just keep going down that path and just continue. If you, you know, try and if you're not naturally a curious person, try and figure out there's got to be something that makes you curious. Just go deep. Keep going down that road. Um and I think to some degree, yes, I have a lot of purpose and I know generally what I like to do. Yeah. And I've learned from a lot of shortcomings to figure out what my strengths are so that I can leverage those because some things to me don't come that naturally easy. So I've really had to get in touch with what am I actually good at so that I can focus on that to make up for some serious shortcomings. Um and I'd say that was more earlier in life that that I had to do that. Um but I think the learning from that is you know directionally where you're headed but that is changing. You know starting a company is very hard. Starting a company in a space that you know doesn't really want your solution. No not really but is very complicated. Healthcare is a long time horizon. You know it's not like selling consumer goods where the market tells you pretty quickly whether it works or not. Building what we're trying to build at my resource. it's working, but it's also healthcare innovation is a longer time horizon. So, you know that that's what you love and that's what you want to do, but you don't know if it's going to work. And it takes a long time and you're getting signals along the way that's working, but it doesn't have the same um feedback mechanism or timeline that other companies might have in other spaces. And so, I'd say that you know what you love and you focus on that. And I think always keeping that north star of like what do I love doing? What do I actually want to do? What am I trying to do? And finding that mission and then you you know the path isn't necessarily clear. But if you have that as your north star, stuff will just and and you you you know you work at it. You're keeping your eyes open. And I think for me the thing I always come back to and and you know starting a company is an incredibly challenging thing to do. It is a slog that I love deeply. And I am so so grateful. And I know you're going to talk to Dr. Gabriella Story as my amazing co-founder. Yes, we are. We're going to have the second half of her bra. The other half of my resource. Yes. Yes. The better half for sure in in our work marriage um is I am so grateful for her to do it with her. But there's been really tough moments. And I think we what I always come back to and what I make myself do and really when I get really stressed out, I make myself sit down and say, "Okay, you know, why are you doing this? What do you love?" Yes. Do you really think that what you're doing right now is the best way to accomplish your mission in life and what you want to do? You know, for me that's being I want to make it easier for people to find mental health care and I make myself sit down and think, well, you know, if I weren't doing it this way, how else would I do it? And I try and think of it be like, is there a better way to do this? And I keep coming back to, and I could be wrong, but I still believe that what we're doing is the best way to accomplish that really big mission of what we want to do. Yeah. And the second that changes, I will no longer be doing my resource. But I still, you know, it's been so many years now. It's been since 2017. I'll let you do the math again. But um and I still that's that kind of keeps you back going even when things get really tough. And like I said, you know, you don't necessarily I don't know what the road's going to be, but I know what brings me joy and what I care about working on and spending my time doing and what my strengths are and the best way to leverage all those things towards where I want to go and then you just follow the road where it takes you. I loved that point you brought up about following your curiosity. I read this book when I was 16 called A Curious Mind by Brian Graasier and it literally describes what you talk about about literally just it's it really simplifies the process of finding your purpose and I really love you sharing that because I think that is key like I've done the same thing and we've done the same thing and even talking about the like mental health care world the healthcare world it really parallels what we're doing in screenwriting and trying to create a TV show because the time horizon is so long and it requires so much patience and that's not something I'm good at. And so it's just like, you know, it's reassuring to hear that there's someone else I know who I love and respect and is doing amazing work and is also has this very long time horizon. Yeah. I also Yeah. Sorry, finish. Go ahead. No, I also love what you said, too, cuz I I do find myself doing that sometimes where you're checking in with yourself and you think, am I on the right path? Like, this is really hard. I love this, but am I am I doing this the right way? And I do the same thing as you and I think other people could do this as well. Imagine doing it differently and does that feel better or worse? And if it feels worse and you're on the right track, right? Like what else are you going to be doing? This is a bit of a pivot, but I wanted to ask McKenzie cuz you have ADHD and we've talked about this on team, but as someone who navigated their 20s with ADHD, what are your best tips? Oh man. Um,

I think so. I'm also dyslexic and sometimes it's hard for me to differentiate and I'm I've been making a point of trying to learn a lot more about ADHD to really understand like what is you know what is dyslexia what is ADHD like that sounds straightforward but I don't think of them as like oh this is my ADHD or this is my dyslexia I just think of like these are the things that are hard for me and this is how I navigate them and these are the tools that I employ to navigate that. Um, so being able to like piece them apart into like here are all the things that are hard for me. This is because of this, this is because of that. You know, it's probably a lot of mixture, but Well, it seems like you learn a lot about yourself and about ADHD and dyslexia and then kind of and what's making it Well, I think that happened earlier on in my life and I was really lucky to have a lot of support and to have some great teachers that gave me tips along the way and um and I'm very fortunate that I got diagnosed at a young age in the second grade. My parents were very supportive. um they got me the help that I needed to learn how to navigate that. Um medication really helps me. So that's a huge piece. Um but then also there's other tools that I use to navigate it. Like for me I'm someone who loses my phone constantly or I you know my I misplace things which is a very common thing for people with ADHD to struggle with. So what I do is I have one place that I always put the important things. Your wallet, passport. Yeah. Um you know the really critical things that are a really big bummer if you lose and become very large impediments in your life. Yeah. Um and just take a lot of time to mediate. You know there's there's things that if you lose, okay, whatever. But for the stuff that you you cannot lose, um having systems, so always keeping certain things in the same place. Um, that's really helpful because then, you know, a lot of times I might be doing something and I'm kind of on autopilot, but I'm thinking about something else and I'll totally forget what I just did or where I left something in that process of whatever I was doing. Um, while I was thinking about something else. Um, so definitely processes are really helpful. Um, the other thing for me that has been a recent discovery has been knitting. Um because if I'm knitting that's occupying I can get movement in and it allows me to then focus on whatever it is that um you know I need to be deploying focus to that may not be as active. You know for me when I'm in meetings if I'm leading the meeting and I'm taking notes or I'm creating like a deck or something like presenting I'm it's active. But if anything is more sitting and listening or active, then it's easier for me to get distracted. So

that activity in that allows me to then actually listen. Um, and I know that people have different ways to sort of do accomplish a similar thing, have movement, whether you're on a bouncy ball or when you're sitting instead of in a chair or whatever it might be. Um, and that was very serendipitous that I learned about knitting because similarly, you know, patience is not one of my virtues. Um, and people that know me well know that I tend to I'm not good at sitting still. I'll get up and move around. I'm hosting you, but I'm getting you water. You brought us a bunch of fun drinks. like five. Um and and so um knitting is something that also helps me sit still and be more present. Uh and I learned that unfortunately because I slipped and fell in my kitchen moving around too much and too fast and I smashed my face in and broke my nose and right before your wedding. Yep. Um she looked beautiful on her wedding day. You would never know. She was fine. your face heals really fast. So, very convenient. Um, and in the recovery process, my mother-in-law very kindly um took care of me and hosted me at her house cuz it was close to where I was living at the time. And she taught me how to knit. And I, you know, had always thought like, oh, knitting's for patient people. And she very kindly explained to me that no, knitts are not patient people. You know, generally knitts are very anxious, rambunctious people that want to move around a lot and have no patience whatsoever. Redefine the knitting community. Yes, this is for me. She has found her people. Redefine knit like sweaters and stuff. I'm trying my first human sweater. I call it a big human sweater. Human sweater sweaters sweaters. They're so Yeah. No, they they're beautiful. I see it all over your Instagram. Adult human sweaters. Adult humans. now has nothing to do with your 20s, but segue. If anyone's in their 20s and trying to navigate ADHD, then you got to knit. You got to be come part of the knitting community. Got to knit. Yeah. No, I knit when I'm anxious. You're a knitter. Yeah. You know, I took it back up after you talked about it. Incredible. Yeah. And I started knitting whenever I'd get anxious cuz I for me when my mind is idle. I don't have ADHD, but I get anxiety. Yeah. And I get anxious. Like whenever I watch the hockey game at my grandma's, I my mind starts to just like go. And then the knitting helps like prevent the anxiety. Nice. So you just learned about hockey. You'd be interested. Your mind would be wandering. You love hockey. You just watch. You genuinely loved it like we do. Come on, girl. You're Canadian. No, I know. It doesn't fit. I belong in this environment. I forgot. Everyone was kind of setting up and getting ready and I look over and Maddiey's just in the sun like this. Oh yeah. All solar powered like Yeah. Absolutely. Oh yeah. Um so okay this is a little bit of a segue but um in your 20s I know you've had a lot of really hard moments and like what did you do to navigate those really hard moments? cuz I feel like in our in your 20s, [ __ ] hits the fan constantly and you're someone, you know, knowing you for so many years, you are such a resilient person. Like you always just keep going. No. And she could be going through absolute hell in her life and she always shows up to the team call and she's like, "Hi." Like she's and you're all about what you're going through. Like it's not like you pretend it's not happening, but the way she treats people and shows up is very admirable. It's what beauty embrace. Yeah. Seriously, you guys are being very kind. No, it's true. I think when you hit hard moments, I always take it back to the basics. Yeah. Which is focus on what are the key components of mental health. Yeah. You know, am I getting good sleep? Am I eating healthy foods and enough foods? Am I getting exercise every day? Am I getting sunlight every day? Am I engaging with my support groups? So, you know, who are the supporters in your life? and you know engage them you know um I think don't struggle alone you know if your friend were and a helpful thing you know for me is to think like okay if my best friend were going through something really hard I would want them to tell me even awkward sometimes to be like hey by the way I'm going through all these things but at the same time you'd be so irritated with your best friend be like why did you not tell me this is happening in your Um, so I think, you know, don't be afraid to share with other people what you're going through and lean on your support networks. Um, and then also, you know, use that, but also do a lot of work yourself to try and do everything you can to make sure that you are being healthy and go back to the basics. Make sure you're moving, make sure you're eating well, make sure you're getting enough sleep, number one priority. Yes. Um, and just know that and trust that it is going to get better and whatever that is hard, you're going to get through it if you continue doing the right steps. Yeah. Um, and day by day, you will feel differently. So, whatever you're feeling in this moment is not going to be a forever feeling. You will figure out how to move forward. And at the end of the day, you know, I've worked with therapists to help me through it. Get professional help. You know, it doesn't mean you have to be in therapy forever. I've gone in and out of therapy my whole life. Um, and worked with clinicians and professionals to get through certain moments and different ones um over time to help me through moments. And you do a couple sessions and okay, great, super, thanks for those tips. And you move on. And then maybe you run into another problem. and you're like, "Oh, um, you know," you reach back out to that therapist and say, "Hey, I would love to do a couple sessions. Here's what I'm working with." And then they can help provide you with tools. So, it's just a way to help move through those hard patches faster. Yeah. Is there a specific type of therapy that you've used for that you keep going back to? Um, or is there I would say that I have an amazing therapist that I work with um that she's been amazing and she knows a lot of my life history. They used to go back to the same so you don't have to reexlain everything to them. Um and and she's amazing and I've popped in and out for many years. I think can speak to that too. Yeah. No, I agree with that 100%. And something that you've had to go through that has been really hard is grief in your 20s. And the way you speak about grief is just really great. Um despite the fact that grief sucks, but the way you talk about it is really good. Thank you. Um so can you tell us a bit about your journey with grief and and how you get all that? Sure. So I think my first introduction to um grief was the loss of my sister. Um after Shelby passed away, I didn't know anything about mental health back then. Um I didn't know about all kinds of different coping mechanisms. I didn't have the skills that I have today to get through hard times. And just looking back, I think that the one thing I said about every day is different and you just have to focus on getting through honestly every minute and the next minute and the next minute and in microscopic ways you just feel different every time you get distance from the grief event. Yeah. Um, and it takes, you know, it's not that you will ever stop loving or missing that person or thinking about them or wishing that they were still here, but grief just gets different. Um, it just I don't have a more articulate way to describe it other than it gets different and you learn how to live with that grief. grief is, you know, it's it's inevitable for the majority of us and that you're going to have people that you love and you're not going to get to spend as much time with those people as you would like. And you have to appreciate the moments that you have them and love them deeply and and go into it eyes wide open that those people may not always be in your life and you just want to really hold on to those moments that you do have and be grateful for them. Yeah. I I'm I think of my mom. My mom lost her mom at a very young age. She was 29 when she lost her mom. And she talks about that similarly where it wasn't necessar Yeah. Of course, when the person first passes, that's really difficult. But then it hits you at different stages of life. So even when my mom first had kids, when she first had us, she would literally be in a grocery aisle, see a mom with her kids and the grandmother and she was like start balling in the grocery aisle because she was like, I never got that. And it just she I remember her saying that like through different phases of life, it just hits her different moments. Yeah, it does. And you say that too. Definitely. You know, it does. And you'll just someone will ask you the same question that they did that someone else asked you the day before. you're totally fine when they ask you that and then all of a sudden this person asks you and you start crying. You're like why? I don't know why, but it just does. And it's I think it's just something you have to be like, okay, you know, that's part of it. That's just it. Yeah, it's true. It's true. I think what's really beautiful about your situation as well is you've really incorporated Shelby into every part of your life. Like team, my resource, you're constantly, I feel like, doing her proud and doing things for her. And I feel like for you as well, that probably feels really good. I know grief sucks, but that probably is a positive of it that she can kind of stay in your life through these things that you're pursuing. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My mom my mom talks about that too. She'll be like like we always say to her like I think so make your mom proud like you know we always try to kind of reassure her with that as well. One thing Yeah. I'll actually say to anyone who has someone else they're trying to support who's grieving someone. It's happened recently with my grandmother. Our grandfather passed away a few years ago. Don't be afraid to mention this person that's passed away. Yeah. I think people get afraid to talk about someone that's passed away. And I think when you love that person, you want to keep talking about them. Yeah. I will say that it can be different though for everyone. So I would say the best way when thinking about how to support someone through grief is that there is no playbook and different people grieve very differently. And I think the most important thing is to not prescribe to somebody how they should grieve. Yeah, as long as they're not harming themselves or harming somebody else, however they want to process it is fine. Some people don't want to talk about their loved one cuz it's too painful. That's true. Um and they they're not ready for that. And even if it was 10 years ago, you know, yeah, it people just grieve differently. They process on different timelines. So, I would say it's okay. However they want to grieve is fine as long again as they're not harming themselves or hurting themselves. Everything else is fine. Yeah. See, I think that's an amazing point because in my family, it's like my mom loves talking about her mother and keeping her a part of everyone's life. My grandma's the same with her grandfather. So, it's good to know that other people have different coping mechanisms. Absolutely. And then that's going to look different for everyone. Absolutely. Different helping languages as we talk about. We've talked about these things on team before. Yeah. If you want to check us out at my team.social, we have a second plug. No, we have lots of plugs. We have a whole like it's like your pocket guide for mental health. like so many great resources on mental health. Yeah. Um, this is a really random segue, but I want to hear about um I know when you were about I think you were about 26 um and you were single and I remember you talking about like oh I feel so old and like there's a kind of like there was a stress there around around being single maybe or I don't know exactly but I'm I'm connecting to my mid20s cuz I that moment's like help when I turned 25 and I was like I'm single Well, and I'm not my parents were married with a house at 25. So, there was just like a sense of of stress about not being with someone. And you're now, you know, happily married and you know, but what was that like at at that time? I don't think I was ever stressed. Okay. Well, that's good. About being single. Um, I think the best tip I have for being single is just focus on what you love and what brings you joy and have fun and don't stress about it. you know, if you're looking to have somebody in your life, um, just be open to meeting people and and do what you love to do and do what interests you and you'll meet people. Um, and then you'll meet the people that maybe you want to spend more time with. Um, it's, you know, by focusing on the things you love, you'll find people that they also love those things, too. And, um, yeah, that would be my advice. But I love that. I live by that as well. Is there anything that happened in your 20s that felt really big at the time, but in hindsight is like, you know what, that was okay. I'm sure there are a lot of things. Um, something specific. I mean, I was engaged at one point and I didn't end up marrying that person and I really thought that I was going to marry that person and I'm really grateful because it definitely wasn't the right thing. and they're a lovely person, but um that was not who I was supposed to be with for the rest of my life. And I think, you know, honestly, that wasn't as hard as if you had told me that that would have been something that happened in my life. I think before losing Shelby, I would have thought that that like, wow, that must be crazy. you know, you hear about people that got engaged like, you know, how do you think about spending your whole life with someone and then that's just it doesn't end up h like you know that just got to be really rough and it it don't get me wrong it's a hard thing to go through. A breakup is hard but um I think I feel like after losing Shelby it, you know, that was I that lowest part of my life and I can't imagine anything else that would be worse. So, you. I think reaching your what feels like rock bottom Yeah. gives you perspective to know that if I feel yucky, I can get out of this, you know, I will feel better. Um, and it just makes hard things in life easier because you have that perspective. Yeah. So, that was definitely um, you know, a blip that I wasn't expecting, but I'm very grateful for it. And I do believe that everything happens for a reason one way or another and that you may not understand why at the time. Um or you know you may have really thought that that was the road you were going down. You know like like me you know I I like I said there are certain things in my life where I've been like that's where I'm going and then it changes and a lot of times those pivot points are painful. Yeah. But you kind of just have to trust the process that okay, I guess that's not what I'm doing now. what I got to refocus and choose a new direction and and you know I feel so grateful that um you know there's definitely been a lot of hard moments but at the end of the day those hard moments I think if you you allow yourself the time to feel the hardships but then you also um take the opportunity to learn at each of those pivot points if you will And that's incredibly valuable. Yeah. And did you feel I I I talked about we've talked about this before, but Maddie going through her health issues did affect the entire family. Obviously, she was the one that went through it physically, but for the rest of us, it was a lot to deal with. And I feel like when she hit her lowest point, I did as well. I was, I think, 16 or 17 at the time. And it did change my entire perspective on life. I feel like it affected the relationships I had. It affected my friendships, everything. Did you feel like that as well? Like going through a low point low point like that, do you feel like it changed the way you saw everything, relationships? Did it catapult you in a different direction in life? Yeah, I think your 20s is a time when you get depth. Yeah. And the other thing I want to say about hardship is that hardship is relative. You know, you can look at someone, someone can have a really hard time with something that may seem in comparison to somebody else's hardship like, well, that's so much harder. You know, this is not hardship, but it's relative. You know, something that may seem small to you can be really momentously hard for that person. It can be their rock bottom. And so, I'd say never judge whether that is, you know, shouldn't be that hard or And I think the other thing is that I think what you start to learn over time is everyone has really hard things going on in their life and that's just life. You know, I think to some degree we need to normalize hardship and that it's you know, I think it's everything I think is a little bit of a pendulum and um and so one thing that I think is really good about mental health and the whole mental health movement is a lot of discussion around and it being okay to talk about your mental wellbeing just like you would your physical health. But um that being said, I think that everyone goes through hard things and that is normal and that is a part of life and and that's okay. Yeah. And it it um and life is hard and it should be expected that you're going to go through hard things and that is okay and you will get through it and everyone goes through hard things and we're not alone in this and and I think that's a great thing about what you're doing in this podcast really is that it doesn't really matter where someone is at one moment in time. It may look like that everything in their life is just incredible but that doesn't mean that they haven't had a lot of really tough moments. Um and that will happen to everybody. everybody is going to have hard points in their life. Um, yeah, it's actually funny that you say that because I feel like entering my 20s is kind of me like realizing that before it's even happening. Like I was like, oh, like I had a moment recently where I was like you're like these things like you'll go through a hard moment hard moment and then you'll get out of it. And then I remember had this moment recently where I was like that's going to happen again and again and again and again and again and again and not just in your 20s for the rest of your life. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, you know what? The best thing you can do is figure out a way, like you say, to handle it. Yeah. And have maybe a system in place. I mean, you're not always going to have a system, but you know, a general idea of what you do when you go through hard moments. And one thing I do is connect with my sisters. I just talk to them and I talk to my family or friends, whatever. You know, if there's something career-wise. But it's like you just kind of have to accept and be like, you know what? Those things will make me a better person. Give you like what you said. give you and just let it let it happen. And I and like exactly what you said, Ken, like that's the whole reason we started this podcast is because I feel like our generation tends to feel isolated about the struggles and feel like, oh, it's only me and and I suck and I'm a loser and this is terrible, but everyone's going through it. And the social media thing, too. There's highlight reels being posted constantly. And I feel like people will see that. And from the outside, yeah, everyone's lives look great. you know, you're posting something on social media, but there's a million things that have probably happened behind the scenes that no one's seeing. And that's just the world we live in now. You kind of have to accept it. I think people get in this idea of like, oh, well, everyone should be posting their hardships. No, they don't have to. Yeah, you don't need to. Literally, just private. It's your It's your job to remind yourself that other people are going through things even if they're not showing. I actively do that on social media. If I see something and I catch myself having a moment of like, oh, like their life is so perfect, I'm like, you know what? It's probably not perfect and they're just not showing it. And that's also honestly like I'm not. I didn't. Yeah. I when I knew Maddie was going through tough times when when we were No. So no one knew. Yeah. It's all relative. Yeah. And um so thinking about the 20s, did anyone ever give you advice on the 20s? Like I feel like and and if they did, were they wrong or were they right that advice? Like was it good advice? No. No one ever sat me down as like so you're entering into your draft and here's what's going to happen. Um, I think that your 20's is a really beautiful time, you know, about to exit my 20s. And I think people say this, but to me, I spent the first part of my 20s really heavily focused on my resource and building my resource. And I worked crazy hours and really hard. And I loved every second. Well, no, it's hard, right? But but like I I don't regret that at all. And um and it's it's not sustainable necessarily to do that at that level for you know 20 years straight. um at least not for me but um but it's you know you're if you not that you need to but if you're planning on having a family eventually if you're if you are with a partner you know um whatever your your family chosen family later in life you know if you have to take care of your parents or your parents start getting sick or other people in your life you know your responsibilities grow I think as you get older And your 20s is a great time when you're, you know, if you went to university, you're out of university. And again, choice is scary, right? That sometimes having options is scary, but it's a time to capitalize on that. Like you have a great opportunity. You're young. You you can just withstand living life, you know, doing all the activities. Yeah. Working really hard, focusing on yourself. Your 20 is the time that you have in a lot of cases and again not for everyone, right? So, um but if you have the luxury to have time to do you, then take advantage and do it. Um do all the things. Um say yes. Um but and again, not everyone has that luxury, but I think that I'm grateful that I felt like I did do a lot of that. I don't have regrets. And yes, that's hard. You know, again, having options is hard. Um, and going back to what we were talking about, you made a great point of, you know, like have a plan of how you're going to cope. And I think a big part of your 20s is learning, you know, when you're growing up a lot of times, I think you lean towards your parents to to, you know, for support and to make you feel better when you go through hardship. And you're really on your own in your 20s a lot of the time or it feels that way, right? you need to learn how to make yourself feel better when you go through hardship. And a friend of mine gave me really amazing advice and he's told me, you know, make a plan of what you're going to do when you're upset ahead of time when you're not, which makes total sense, but I don't know why people don't tell you that. Like when you're feeling great, make a list when you're thinking logically about like here's what like a checklist so you can just go on autopilot because you're not going to be inventive or make rational decisions. when you feel horrible because you feel horrible. So, you need something to fall back on to get you through those moments. So, I think that that's amazing advice that I would totally share is sit down and like pre-plan out what you're going to do. So, you can just go on autopilot and follow the list and you just make yourself like I don't want to do that, but I'm going to make myself do that cuz I know it will make me feel better and it's written down on a list, so I'm just going to do it. And and I really like Sorry. No, go ahead. I really like what you're talking about too, how your 20s is you're actually learning the coping mechanisms as you're going. Yeah. I think that's what makes it hard because you don't really have that you haven't built that muscle memory of how to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Even like I'm 25. I started therapy when I was 20 and only now am I starting to feel like I've got I'm starting to get the hang of things that used to be really destabilizing when I was 20 because just the coping mechanisms are becoming stronger. Like they're just go to you're doing great. And I think that's what hardship does is that if you have hardship when you're younger, it really it's hard and it's miserable, but it does set you up really well for the rest of your life is that people learn that lesson at different periods of in time. And it's really nice to have those skill sets because you can just you can move through those tough events when they come faster. And um taking the time to learn how to do that and to get better every time I think is definitely a strong suit. And I think at the end of the day, you should definitely use a therapist to help you. That's really been helpful for me to use a therapist to do that. And what I love what you you both have showed me this and it's that you know, you could be in therapy, you could go to therapy once a year and that's enough or you go to therapy every week. it. There's no like just because you go to therapy doesn't mean that you're in it for life or like you know what I mean like it's like it's like what you guys say you use it as like a life thing like a skill tool. It helps you. Yeah. It's a tool. You go to the physiootherapist if you have a sore shoulder. Right. Exactly. Exactly. I just love how you both have shown me that is that if you feel like you need help, just go. You can need one session, you can need three, you can need however many you need, or you could, you know, it just it there's no you're not chained to therapy for the rest of your life. That's definitely not the right word. I know but we're going to go with it. Once it doesn't mean that you have to keep going or just life's different. Yeah. It's not a life sentence. I think that's what Yeah. No, that's what I'm trying to get. It's not a life sentence. That's I love that. That's what I was trying to get at. It's not. And it's I love how you guys navigate that. I learned it from Mackenzie cuz Mackenzie introduced me to mental health. Like thank goodness I joined team when I was 18 because I don't know where I'd be with my my uh Yeah, I say that too. But like I wouldn't know how to navigate so many different situations because of like your especially your help guys. Team wouldn't be here without you guys. It's a teamelves. We always get off the call and we go team work. One one last thing I do want to talk about um is friendships and the role that friendship has played in your 20s because going to your wedding and seeing all your lovely bridesmaids and all the guests at your wedding. Yeah. Like we wanted to adopt them as our friends as well. I was like, can I actually going to be interviewing a lot of them on here, which is really fun. Yeah. And lots of cameos. They just It just seemed like you really cultivated a really beautiful network of people around you, like really good people, and I just want to hear about how you did that, cuz that's a struggle in your 20s to find good people, the right people. Yeah. Um, I just feel really lucky to have the friends that I do and my my friendships are everything to me. Um, and they make me a better person. You know, I know everyone has heard this saying, but the people you spend time with, you know, was it the five people you spend time with really like shape you whether you like it or not. Um, and I just feel like the friends that I have truly inspire me to be better people and I'm so grateful and feel so lucky to have the friends that I do have. And it's hard to find the people that you really resonate with. And I think a big part of that is just knowing yourself, knowing what is important to you. And the more you know yourself, I think the more you find your Well, it's you got to know yourself and you have to put yourself out there to go and meet people. Um, you know, moving to new cities is really hard. I met some of my best friends ever when I was in London. I knew no one. Um, and I got a text from someone saying, "Hey, this person just moved to London. I think you would really like them. And I texted them and I said, "Hey, I got your number from this person, blah blah blah. Love to get a drink, water, coffee at any time, at anywhere. I'm so desperate." Great. I met up with them and like it was supposed to be a quick coffee and we ended up having a three sitting there for three hours and you just I just knew that like this is my person, you know, and I'm so grateful. Um, and Nicole's been a dear dear dear friend of mine ever since. And that like never happens. But you, but you just got to put yourself out there cuz you never know. You know, you might go to lunch with someone and they're it's you know, you know they're not your person, but they might be a lovely person and they might introduce you to somebody else. So, I really think just being kind, putting yourself out there, and knowing yourself because when you know yourself, you know what type of people that you resonate with and want to spend a lot of time with. Yeah, that's great. And people that inspire you. Yes. Yes. Yes. I love that. Saying saying yes to the adventure, unknown. Yes. Say yes to Nicole and you'll find a friend like Nicole. Yes. Well, I am very grateful. We talk about this all the time, but meeting you was incredibly random. And I'm forever grateful. Yeah. Well, Mackenzie and I met through Instagram. Banana. Hi. Banana. [Laughter] For those who can't see, if you're listening, there's a beautiful dog. A beautiful banana. Banana named Banana. Well, this has been lovely. I think we'll wrap this up because Mackenzie's a busy woman who has lots of things to do. We have to hang out. Just quickly though, like meeting friends, Mackenzie and I met through Instagram, which like doesn't ever happen. So, just say yes. Even if it's on social media, if you just like, you never know. Maddie messaged her cuz she liked her boots. Yeah. And turns out I had no idea. Yeah. Because it's like I didn't know this actually. Yeah. That's what led me to I thought you liked team. No, I did. I did. It started. The boots were the hook. And once I got to your Instagram and I saw team, I was like, I love team. The boots was what hooked me in. But I stayed for team. Yeah, she stayed for team. That was really I'm so glad. Yeah, otherwise would be here. McKenzie, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. We're going to go hang out after this. I am so grateful for the three of you. Truly, I am so proud and so honored to get to be a part of your life. She raised us as a professional. I say this all the time, but I'm like, we've been even I've been part of the nonprofit since we were 16, I think, or 17. Oh my gosh. I know. I was a baby and I literally joke I'm like I would not be able to take calls. I would not be able to do anything without this nonprofit because I literally learned all of my skills through this thing. Yes. Through the lovely mechanic. I don't think I can take that much credit, but now it's on you guys to teach. Exactly. We'll try. Find your McGregor sisters. The theater near you. But this has been lovely and thank you to everyone for listening and we'll tell we'll you can find McKenzie. We'll link all of her website, everything in the show notes. Yeah, we're going to link my resource team and her personal page and go check everything out because she's up to a lot of amazing things. Keep track of her. Yeah. Thank you guys. Thank you for listening. Yay. Bye. Thank you.