Chapter Twelve: How To Be Healthy In Your 20s with Josie Santi

Wellness in your 20s with Josie Santi (The Everygirl, 1M+ downloads): Authenticity, joy, and self-discovery for ambitious women. CHAPTER 12 of The 20 Something Playbook Podcast – New episodes every Tuesday! Timestamps: 00:00 Intro & Guest Welcome 03:15 Josie’s 20s transformation story 10:45 Redefining wellness: what really matters 19:30 Moving from Chicago to LA – chasing dreams 27:00 Joy as a lifestyle: Josie’s #1 takeaway 👇 What’s your #1 wellness lesson from your 20s? Drop it in the comments and join the conversation! For more on Josie Santi: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/josie.santi/?hl=en The Everygirl podcast: https://www.theeverygirlpodcast.com/ The Everygirl podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theeverygirlpodcast/ About Josie Santi: https://theeverygirl.com/contributor/josie-santi/

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Transcript:

I grew up always wanting to do like the Devil Wears Prada work for Vogue fashion.

I had this expectation of like people being perfect and that's like something that in therapy I've like worked on because with my fiance, we've been together for 8 years. I had this expectation of like when you meet your person it's like the stars align. I'm like there's never an issue. It's not whether or not you have conflict. It's how the conflict looks and how you handle it. Who do I actually want as friends? Whereas up until that point of your life, you're very much like fall into friendships. And I was like, oh, I don't need a steady job. You guys were like, I don't need a job. I don't need on my mind. It's just about like chasing that like little siren calling you. And it's going to feel different from everyone. And I think that's what's so cool. The 20s are the time to blow [ __ ] up. Let's do it.

We have been yapping away over here with Josie Santi. And for those of you who don't know who Josie Santi is, she's the host of the Evergirl podcast, which just reached 1 million downloads. Like amazing. Thank you so much. Oh my god. Thank you. It was really exciting. That's amazing. And Josie is also the senior wellness editor at the Every Girl, which has like a million followers on Instagram or something crazy like that. 1.2. Thank you. Amazing. To be exact here. Don't miss a point too. The point two is a lot. It's important. It's good. Oh my goodness. And we're going to be talking to Josie about her 20s. So, we're super excited. My favorite decade. One of the two I've been in. So, it's all I love it. We're here. Sorry. No, go ahead. We're here in LA today. It's a beautiful sunny day. Um, again, to introduce ourselves, we look exactly the same. Ava and I'm Madison. And welcome to the 20some playbook. Good intro. Thank you. So, Josie, if you were to describe your 20s in three words, what would they be? Damn, you got three words.

Chaotic. Good one. Um, exploratory. Is that a word? Question mark. We're going to let it slide. Hey, feels like it's a word. We're going to call that one a word. And I would say transformative. Nice. I love that. So, okay. You've had such an interesting amount of experiences and I want to hear about all of that. Moving, you're originally from Chicago, leaving home, going to LA, and all the crazy internships you've had and experiences you've had. I just want to hear about all of it. Gosh, I've been all over the place. So, get ready. We're strapped in. We're strapped in. We'll just mute your mic when we're ready. Yeah. Yeah. You just want to like move it away like the cane like just like pull me off stage. I want to hear it all. I want to hear it all. So, um I grew up always wanting to do like the devil's Prada, work for Vogue, the fashion editor. I know. I was I grew up in that generation where like we all watched the hills. We all wanted that line. So, that's what I really wanted and I ended up like I did kind of like a teen Vogue weekend long. It was like a little teenage thing. It was but it was, you know, I went to New York so fun. So, I was like in love with it. I was writing for some local magazines in Chicago. So, I was like really trying to um even in high school like get myself out there and like write a lot. And um when I was in college, I moved to Paris for 6 months. Did an internship with L magazine in Paris. So cool. Um and then after that, I was like, okay, I'm honestly like homesick. I was in Paris for 6 months. Oh my god. So the summer after I was like, okay, I you know, want to find an internship somewhere in media. Hopefully fashion or lifestyle. like that's women's lifestyle was what I was passionate about and I had always loved the every girl which is based in Chicago which is where I'm from. I loved at the time in high school I would find their like pictures on Pinterest were so beautiful. Um I don't know if you guys were like old enough to like remember that that was like way vintage every day gorgeous like the most like gorgeous Pinterest. I've always been a Pinterest girl so I probably have seen it and maybe without knowing. I've been a Pinterest girl for years. Yeah. I mean they're they stand the test of time. I have to say the old school every girl photos are so gorgeous still. So I loved them and I um this was at the time I mean now I think this is more normal but I was like okay I want an internship here. They're not posting about it. Let me just like harass people. I love that. Best way to do it your favorite approach like that's you got to got to risk. So I had um found a couple emails. I don't even know if LinkedIn was a thing yet or not or how I found them. So, I just started like emailing, eventually got an got the internship, got an interview, got the internship, loved the every girl so much. It was such a small team at the time. And then I um kept writing for them while I was in college. And then when I graduated, they offered me a full-time job. Yay. I know. As um editorial assistant. So, my whole career has been at the Every Girl. I've had like 10,000 lives. I was editorial assistant. I then became the fashion features manager where I would plan our photo shoots and had like it was really fun because that again I was still like my um focus was fashion and that was like my biggest passion. Um again pull away my mic if I talk to you. No, keep going. We keep going. So simultaneously to all that in my career, I was kind of going through like a lot of health issues, a lot of like bad periods, gut issues, anxiety, like trying to heal a lot of different things at the same time as I was going through this career as many of us are trying to do like our freaking health issues and having this career. And um so I always say because people always ask, you know, were you always interested wellness? And my answer is absolutely not. I was raised being like, can I swear on this podcast? Like [ __ ] the diet culture. Like my friends in high school would be like, "Oh, we're going to eat at the salad bar." And be like, "Fuck that. I'm French toast sticks and pizza." So I was like raised being like, "I'm not your typical girl. I'm a school girl that like eats whatever I want." So I had no interested in health. And then when I was in college, I was really interested in religious studies. So I was majoring in English, thinking I'm going to go the fashion route, but then was so passionate about religious studies. I loved learning about like Eastern religions. Um, so I just kept taking classes and classes and in one of those classes I learned about Ayurveda. If you guys have heard of No, I thought that's where you're going with the Eastern studies. Yes, that's where it always ends up. Yeah, it's for if listeners that aren't familiar. It is um the most ancient form of medicine that's still practiced today. And it is a really really really cool I mean it's been around for thousands of years and it's this incredible system of medicine. Um that was the first time I mean now it's this idea is very mainstream. So maybe like what do you mean you to know but at the time my idea of health and what it was mainstream was like calories weight loss. So true. So when I learned about Ayurveda, I was like, "Wo, you can use health to be happier." Like you can use health to improve your relationships. You can use health as the tool to live your best life to be more connected spiritually. So that was a really aha moment for me. And I also was trying to heal a lot of symptoms and I was like, "Oh, this feels like the route more than the conventional approach that I had known of before." So then I just became really passionate about health through that lens. I then as I was you know going my career in fashion I um just for the sake wanted to know more about health. So then I signed up for nutrition school got certified as a health coach and I was like I'm never going to be a health coach but I just want to like learn more and then through that process I healed so much about myself. I also connected to my body and I I was kind of had this realization of like so many of my friends so many women especially being in fashion so many women are so at odds with their body. Obviously in their confidence and feeling like their bodies aren't good enough but also a lot of my friends were dealing with really bad symptoms that they felt like my body is the enemy. I hate my body. So I felt this aha moment of like I have to help other women feel better. I I have to. So then my whole career pivoted from fashion into health and thank God for the every girl. They loved that and allowed me to like pivot and then I later became the senior wellness editor and that is my extremely long story. No, you guys can tell I'm a podcaster so I 10,000. You got to say it's so much better than having to drag things out of people. That's true. So go on and edit out what you don't want. We can do whatever we Yeah, you can do whatever. This is all our stuff. Yeah, that's your stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I want to hear. Okay. When did you move to Paris? Oo. How old were you? I was 20 because I turned 21 in Paris. Yes, I was 20 and I did like a study abroad program, but I came earlier and stayed later for this internship and out. Did that shape you in any way, do you think? Oh my god. Well, first of all, I think I'm like the hottest [ __ ] ever because in Paris. Yeah, I'm jealous of you extremely. like you know like the hills like I was the girl that went to Paris but I was like I'm cool. Okay. So in that way yes but also to kind of your point being so young being in a foreign country I definitely feel like I had such a different perspective. I mean to to it also like you know not to get political but it was during the 2016 election. So, oh, I know you guys live in Toronto, so maybe you're like more removed than the memory right now, but um but it was just like really interesting because I got to learn an outside perspective and as someone who lives in the US and can often I think being in this country feels like a shelter in a certain way. So being outside of it and being so young and learning how to honor different uh language and culture and that was transformative in so many ways and gave I think so much confidence cuz I was like when I first got there I'm like wait I my where's my mom? Oh my god. Yeah. Literally like mom. And so like yeah what where am I? What did I do? So being able to learn like, oh, I can do this. Like I can figure out the metro system. I can get myself from point A to point B. I can language. Yeah. And I also didn't have any friends there. So it really I think until my confidence of like, oh, I can figure [ __ ] out. Yeah. No, I did you make any friends there or did you just solo it the whole time? H Did I? I had um so I did a study abroad program with my school where there was like a couple guys that I knew. So I would like hang out with them a little bit. Um so they were my friends and then I made yeah I made a couple of friends within my program and a couple people from um L magazine that I would like hang out with a little bit but it definitely never became like the like a friend for life. Yeah, I definitely spent a lot of time alone and not in like a you're in Paris. I don't feel bad for you. Like do some of that.

No, I do not feel bad for you. But that was actually that was a really uh formative part because as I think we all do, I spent so many of my teenage years and at that point like the first year of my 20s being like I have to be with people like I can't go to the gym in my college without my friend like I can't go anywhere alone. So that was a huge thing literally if I want to go to this cafe I have to do it by myself. I have to. So, it was um and now ever since then, I love doing things by myself. And I think that's such an important thing for everyone to experience. Like even if it's not you're going to a foreign country and you're going to go spend money by yourself, but it's more of, you know, like let me force myself to go bring my book and sit at a bar at a restaurant. I feel like that's such a crucial part of your 20s is learning how to be in the world as an individual. Yeah. I love that. Um, so what your podcast is a lot about is just loving yourself while you're trying to become the best version of yourself. And what was that journey like for you? Speaking of being alone in Paris, speaking of loneliness, that's such a great question. I have always been so interested in self-improvement because I think I've always had this idea of like I don't want to be at the end of my life and being like man I regret not doing that. I I feel like I didn't get to my highest potential and I have just that's always been I think that's always in the back of people's heads but that was always in the front of my head. So I had this like obsession with like okay how do I like max out my life? like how do I make it so that my career makes me happy, my relationships make me happy, where I live, and having that desire to help other women do that too. Um, but through that journey, I kind of noticed that I was having the toxic productivity that came with that of like I wouldn't want to read books if it wasn't self-help books that were making me better. So, I kind of realized that that was happening with me and also that was happening in our culture. You know, there's so much of like, okay, now you need pushing everything. Pushing everything. Now you need the mouth tape. You need 10 of you like eat 30 g of protein per meal. And I just kind of like realized a couple years ago as both like the senior wellness editor, as like having a lot of wellness people on the podcast, I'm like, we've lost the plot. Like the plot has been left at the station because we're like stressed out. Like wellness is making us stress, which is like it's supposed to do the opposite. It reminds me of that. I saw this really funny meme on Instagram about someone reading about oatmeal and then there's like one article that says oatmeal is good for you and one that's bad and they're like okay you know what I'll have a banana bananas are bad bananas like it's like it's so confusing it's so confusing it's so confusing and it's what I have learned is like whatever you want to call it wellness self-improvement whatever you want to call it the goal of it is actually not about adding things to your life it's like taking away the [ __ ] so that you are authentic so that you are like who you are meant to be like your true self, like that that child that you were before the world put all the [ __ ] on you, that's what wellness is supposed to be. And so when we talk about in the way of, you know, you're not good enough as you are, your morning routine isn't good enough, you need five different steps in order just to feel like you're worthy. Yeah. We're we're distracted. Okay. So, that is kind of what I set out to help is I was like, I you know, I want to max out my life. I want to live the biggest most fulfilling life I possibly can and I want to help other women do that. But in order to do that, we have to stop feeling bad as we already are. We got to feel like it's almost like loving oursel as cheesy as it sounds is the lens in which we get the fulfilling title, not kind of like an afterthought. So, it's very different than what I think a lot of people talk about when they speak on self-improvement. And I wanted to change that. Yeah, we talk about that a lot within even our career because you know you're not succeeding much at this age. Like you're trying but you're not but you're not you know peak success. You're not like oh I always envisioned I would be learn Yeah. Exactly. So you have to learn to be gentle with yourself and be like just cuz I'm not at the end result doesn't mean I can't enjoy myself or feel proud of myself or have fun. Like I feel like it goes for your personal life and your career. Yeah. 100. It's so true for your personal life, too. Yeah. Because it is, you know, I think there's so much toxic productivity in the way that we interact with friends. Like I I was definitely at a point where I was like, "Okay, I am supposed to have friends on social media. Oh, I need to be like hang out with people and be but I need to be able to like work on the weekends and at night." And so it was like always this balance of like, okay, I'm supposed to be having fun with friends, but I'm also supposed to be working. And we like again where we lost the plot of like the purpose of our lives are to be happy. Yes. And we all think that. So we think we're working towards that, but then we're losing the ability to be happy now in that pursuit. And it's it's distracting us. I think it's just the best way to put it. Yeah. For me, that was a recent transition actually for myself cuz we we didn't go to college. We did or university. We went straight into learning how to screenwrite. No problem. We don't feel cool until you're a big deal. Okay. You didn't go to college. Yeah. My gosh. But we like got straight into learning how to screenwrite and when you're you know technically everything is if you're not doing anything then you're not moving anything forward. So there was a I think like a 4-year period where I didn't feel productive unless I was literally sitting down writing a screenplay, networking with people, you know, sending emails d and then just recently I was like, you know what, spending time with my family is productive. Having time with friends is productive. Like taking time to yourself, spending time with my grandma, like things that make you happy are actually productive because that's what's making you enjoy life 100%. And I think it obviously the goal is to be happy in our life. But if you're also, as most of us are in our 20s especially, we're like, you know, we're working so hard for this career. It makes you better in your career. Like this, to your point, it's so much more productive because I have noticed, and that was a big learning curve for me in my 20s, is if I'm working 24/7, I'm not going to be producing good work. Period. Like, I'm not It's true. You burn out. You burn out. I know if I go work out, if I have dinner with my fiance, if I like go on a walk with my dog, if I laugh with my friends and I get really drunk and have wine, I will show up the next day and be like, I have the best idea podcast. I will get more done in less time and I will be in the flow. And I think like we talk about this idea of the flow as I don't know, it just feels very arbitrary, but it's really real. Like we talk so much about time management and I always say like if we keep thinking that our success is determined by the time we put in, we will never be truly successful. We got to switch it to be thinking our success is determined by our energy we put in. And in order to have the energy we want to put in, we have to recharge to your point and we have to have that spark in our life so that we bring the energy that will get us the success that we want. Yeah, I really like the way you worded that because that's something I found too like I think we all avanel and I all came to the same place of feeling like our lives inform our work. Yeah. Like having a life is actually a good thing. Yes. Weird, right? Funny when you realize that. Yeah. A life. What? But you're so right. That's such a good way to say it. Thank you. Yeah. We're going to do I I you spoke about you just mentioned fiance really quickly. I want to know what was dating like in your 20s? the journey of like, you know, where you are today. How did you get there? Yeah. Oh, okay. Um, dating was wild. I mean, well, here's the unfortunate truth because I wish I had like, oh, yeah, I dated for so long and like I have all these funny stories. I met my fiance when I was 21. So, we've been dating for all this time. But uh I looking back on like when I was dating in college and those years thinking of dating in Paris and whatever and I say thinking because I started talking to him when I was in Paris which was annoying cuz I'm like I'm going to have an affair with a French man. So that's a whole different story. But um the biggest thing that I learned was that I was performing in dating. And it wasn't even because I was like, "Oh, I met this guy who's really cute that I like." I just wanted to be liked so bad. And I didn't even realize that, but I had so much identity in like I'm the girl that's liked. Like I have to be like, I will do anything to be liked. I do not want to change this selfidentity of like I'm likable and I'm worthy. So I'm I will do anything to make other people like me. Mhm. So what that would look like with dating was like if I met a guy who for example like my high school boyfriend loved R&B and rap. So without even realizing how I was doing it I was like R&B and rap is my favorite music. I would only listen to R&B and rap. And then the next guy that I was talking to was like cool like loved alternative music. So I'm like yeah I'm cool. I like alternative music. Like so that's just the most kind of like concrete example of how I would change myself. And I didn't even realize like it was not conscious. I feel like I will be the cool girl if you want me to be the cool girl. I will be, you know, like I can be whatever you want. You were a shape shifter. I'm a shape. I was a freaking chameleon. And I think if I had continued to date throughout my 20s, I probably would have learned that one way or another. I think that's a big part of like maturing is realizing like, oh, dating is not being liked. It's about who I like. Yeah. Um, but I really learned that with my fiance now, my now fiance, because it was the first time that I was like, I actually like really don't want a boyfriend. Like, I actually don't want to like you. So, like, I dare you not to like me. So, I was just like, I only like Broadway and Taylor Swift. And I'm like, take it or leave it. I am like the least cool girl. I will not watch any scary movie with you. I only like romcoms. Like, I am a man's worst [ __ ] nightmare. And I put that all on the table. And then he obviously like loved all that because duh. And are you a cleaner? Yeah. But it really made me, I think, learn and realize what I was doing. I was like, "Oh, I've never actually shared my insights with a man before in my life." And I learned that I did that. But again, I think that we all kind of go through that experience whether we're single or dating or whatever. Like when we're young, we our identity is so much more fixed on like I need to be liked. Yeah. Growing up, maturing, adulting, whatever you want to call it, is learning. Oh, it actually doesn't matter. Like, this is about who I like, not about who likes me. I love that. I love that, too. I also think it's great for people to hear that like being yourself can pay off. Weird. Weird. What? Like everyone. Yes. I would actually think it it not only pays off, but it's like what you have to do to find someone compatible. I mean there's it's like a shell silver scene something or other where it's like um you know someone has a I literally I'm going to butcher this so bad but it's like someone is walking around with like that's a red person and everyone else around them is blue so they're wearing a blue mask and it's like there's another person that's a red person that's wearing a blue mask too and they're always missing each other cuz they're thinking oh they're a blue person too. So if that

okay even if it's butchered I kind of dig that. Yeah, I love it. You read the real poem. It's like two sentences that are so eloquent and it's like nothing like behind a blue guy. That was probably easier to understand than the actual poem. Yeah, for real. So, I really boiled it down. I dumped it down for us. I need that. You're helping us out. You're helping us out. Exactly. But I think it's so true like now if I were to do it again and the advice that I tell any single person is like it's not only a good thing like own your own who you are like so it's not only about that it's like you will literally not attract the people to you unless you are your full self from the inside showing on the outside. It's so true. I agree. It's so true. I wanted to ask this is a bit of a pivot but I like asking a lot of our guests this. Is there anything that happened to you in your 20s that felt massive and huge and like a failure at the time, but now in hindsight you're like, "Okay, that wasn't that bad." Oh, probably a lot. I think that's like the I like what I call this is like the thank God moment where like, you know, when you break up with someone and you're like, "I'm so sad. Like, I'll never get over this. My heart is broken." Or you don't get the job you really want. And then in the future, you look back and you're like, "Thank God that [ __ ] broke up with me." Thank God. Or like, "Thank God I didn't get that job because there was something so much better for me waiting." So, I always call this the thank god moment. I mean, the biggest one that's coming to mind. I mean, I'm sure that there were stuff in my there actually were stuff in my career that I can get into, too. But, um, the probably the biggest thing was breaking up with my first boyfriend. The drama, right, as we all go through it. and my fiances came soon after. So, it was a very obvious thank God that you um but it definitely was like uh as we all feel about breakups, you're like it's so funny to look back and be like I was devastated. This food, we've all cried too much over the all cried too much. So, yeah. So, I would say like that was a big learning curve. And then I think um obviously being at the Evergirl for so long has been such a blessing. There was one point again we used to be like just in Chicago like it was just a Chicago office. So when I wanted to move to LA I was thinking like they're not gonna like there's no option. I have to look for a new job that's in LA. This was like pre pandemic. So it wasn't like people were as online as they are now. And thank god what ended up happening is I I really wanted to stay with the every girl and they were like sure stay on no big deal. So it all ended up fine with the every girl. But I was for a little bit like, okay, I guess I have to start like looking for another job. And I can't remember now. I like applied for a couple places and I obviously didn't get any of them. And I was like, oh my god, like what is my life going to be? I'm not going to have a job. I can't move to LA. Like what's going to happen? And again, it's thank God because I didn't even at the time think the every girl could keep me on. So I didn't even kind of think of that route because like now it would be obvious of, you know, we have so many virtual people. I've been virtual obviously for so long but at the time it was it didn't even dawn on me that I could ask and be like can I stay on. So if I had got another job I would be some like random editor somewhere be like hosting a podcast. So it is the cheesiest thing but I think the main thing I've heard from other people and what I've learned myself in my 20s is the cheesiness of everything happens for a reason and like what passes you is not meant for you. And um I don't I don't believe in anything that's not a blessing in disguise, if that makes sense. Like I think that every every time we feel like I hate that I didn't get that. It is the blessing that then becomes the thank God moment. I agree. Totally agree. I completely agree with that. And I feel like there's so many moments in our lives too where it's like and they always say you can't connect the dots looking forward. Like it's only looking back that you can connect on. I try to remember that when I'm in the moment too of that feeling of like you feel like crap and you're like, "Oh god, like where do I go from here?" I try to remember that anytime I felt that in the past, it's always worked out better. I You go ahead. I want to know. I want to know, Josie. Yes. What are your top health tips for people in their 20s? Do you have some top health tips? I sure do. Okay, here's my biggest one and it's going to be cheesy, but you have to stick with me because I promise I won't make it cheesy. Okay, the biggest health tip like every know, okay, if I'm going to transform my health, what is going to be like the biggest bang for my buck? I swear to you, based on research, science, whatever you want to call it, the biggest bang for your buck is to laugh more and have fun with your friends and to like go out and feel joy and read the book that makes you happy. And that's because I mean there's so many so much research like one of my biggest passions is the research behind like why joy, connection, relationships, happiness is so essential for our health. There are studies after studies that prove more than diet, more than exercise, the way that you feel, your level of satisfaction in life is the most uh the most important factor for weight, for longevity, for hormonal health, gut health, every system of your body needs joy to thrive. That's so sweet. I love that. I know. I don't think that's so 10 out of 10. Well, because I'm like, okay. Yeah. when people hear, you know, just be happy, it's like, okay, but there's studies that prove this. I mean, one example I like to point to is the hormone hierarchy. So, one of my big passions, like I became a hormonal health coach and like really helping women he heal their hormones. Something crazy that I learned is that there's something called the hormone hierarchy, which is basically like one hormone affects others. So um you know you got your progesterone and estrogen and testosterone and like you have the what we call sex hormones and those are affected by all these different hormones kind of in a hierarchy. The top of the hierarchy the top. So the one hormone that affects all the other hormones is oxytocin which is the love hormone. you release it when you are cuddling, when you are, you know, feel love for someone, when you're kissing your dog, like anything like that, when you're laughing with your friends, that affects the way that your progesterone, your estrogen, your cortisol, like that affects all the your insulin, like it affects all these other hormones in the body. So, that's just one of many examples of how joy and connection affect your body. And so, there's science that proves this. And yet wellness as we know it is such an isolating thing. You know, it's like, "Oh, I have to go home by 9:00 p.m. tonight cuz I got to wake up for my 5:00 a.m. workout." That's not wellness. That is not wellbeing if you are limiting your connection with other people in the name of wellness. Yeah. Again, we're missing it. We lost a lot. I remember when I was in like a really intense wellness phase, I wouldn't even eat out with my friends. And that just changes your connection with people. Changes your connection. Yeah. And even the stress of like, okay, my friends are going out, but I don't want to. There's nothing on the menu for me to eat, and so I don't want to go. That's not wellness. That and cuz I went through that phase, too. So, I totally get you. I've been there where I'm like, well, shoot, this is like I I don't want to drink alcohol, which, you know, maybe alcohol isn't the best. I'm not trying to say like, but there was like a time where if you enjoy a glass of wine, I say that for a while. So, I say that about like my candy and my chocolate. Like I'm like, "Listen, I'm going to let myself have that." Eat your candy. Okay, eat it. I want it. Thank you, Josie. The stress that comes home. I'm like the worst health coach ever. Like, eat whatever you want. No, but it's true. Makes you happy. Whatever makes you happy. It's literally measured and scientifically accurate that the stress that we feel from not spending time with our friends, from restricting ourselves from foods that we love is more damaging for the body than actually eating those foods. So like eat the [ __ ] candy. Yeah. Balance. And it's not like candy with your friends for maximum benefit and and then have a smoothie for breakfast and then have some salad and get your nutrients and go for a walk. Like should Yeah. fit in all that, but also enjoy yourself. Enjoy your freaking life. I agree with that. We personally love that. Abe and I, we're big foodies. Okay, good. Go to Shake Shack tonight. Wait, I want to know one of the restaurants you've tried while you were here. Oh my god. Oh, Maddie wants to try Sweet Green. I wanted We've been really just taking advantage of Trader Joe's. We don't have a Trader Joe's. No, in Canada. Trader Joe's. We got these delicious chocolate glazed donuts that look like Timbits from Tim Hortons in Canada in the room right now. Yeah, I'm ready. Wait, they're here right now. Okay, this is my reward. What is your reward for doing this podcast? Wait. Okay. And Tim Hortons. Can I side note of like is it called Tim Hortons? Okay. Is it? And it's worth the hype. Oh, okay. It's cheap. Is it? I'm a big Tim. You got to get the donuts. You have to They're called You can also get Timbits. Tim, those are good. Ooh, like doughnut holes or like little tiny like just like Yeah, the little donut holes. It's funny in Canada no one says donut hole. Everyone says timbit cuz that's timbits and then they have ice caps which are ice cappuccinos and they're like a slushie but they're ice like oh my I had a very I had a very severe addiction. All she had was ice cappuccinos. What a good gift. severe and I have one really close to my house and a I would be we driving around and I would be like it's right next you're like pull over pull over the car now. It is right next to the local grocery store. So, every time you go, you're just like, you have to you have to. I mean, you probably like can't pass one without like I got to get somewhere. No. If you ever go to Canada, for me, the bagel's phenomenal. Tim's like, listen, they're not a New York bagel. Don't expect a New York bagel. I love I'm not a bagel snob, so I'm open to any kind of bagel. They stuff it with cream cheese. So much cream cheese. I just I've never had a bad Tim's bagel recommend. And oh my god, actually when we've been traveling recently, I keep meaning to get a Tim Hortons bagel at the Canadian airport and I've missed it the past three times. We went to the last one. I'm getting one this time. I was like, I'm getting a bagel this time. They because we were on the American side of the airport or something. We went through customs after customs. They were like through this glass wall. I was like, where's the Timmy's? Cuz I saw it on the other side of the glass. I was like, "How do I get from Timmy's to here?" And they're like, "You can't, honey. It's this is the US side." I was like, "No." Well, I was so Canada being like, "Fuck you guys." American, you can't get her tomorrow. Seriously, that is your That is your like terrible. That's like your punishment. Yeah, that's your punishment. Yeah. You go sit over there and think about what you've done. Go to get a Starbucks bagel. Make it yourself with the butter and the cream cheese and the knife. The crap is Starbucks. Sorry, Starbucks. No, we love Starbucks. I like the bagels. I'm telling you to make them yourself. Yeah, make it for you. Cream cheese. I know. I I like it like stuff. I went between like 60% cream cheese, 40%. You would love a Tim Hortons bagel. There's a meme that like you just put the entire jar of cream cheese between the two. That is what I like. Okay. I've never been to Canada. Oh my god. You need to come visit us in Toronto. Okay, I will. I always wanted to. And I hear Toronto is like so fun. It's a very clean city. It's a cleaner New York. Amazing. That's a bit more space. I mean, it's not as like iconic, but like it's fun. But like Hello. It's so fun. Yeah, now that Tim Horton's brand is over. Back to the 20s. Back to the 20s. I'll bring it back. Yeah, I'll bring it back, guys. Come on. I could keep talking about my teenag

was there a moment in your 20s when you felt completely lost and then something helped you find direction and what was that? And I'm going to add one more question to that. How do you stay true to yourself? Cuz you seem like I'm literally very authentic in that journey. Okay. M have we confused your question? No, I love that question. I don't think of a good answer. I would say I've kind of always felt a little lost and a little found. Does that make sense? I think that's normal. Yeah. Right. Like Yeah. There was I think I've been lucky in the sense that I have never had a moment where I'm like, "Oh my god, I have no idea." Actually, that's such a lie. But I guess I've I've been so lucky in my career. I've been so lucky in my friendships and the relationships that I've had where I there was no point where I'm like rock bottom. So my rock bottom is coming. So stay tuned. Um next year I'm going to be like yeah guys we're done that. Um so I was really lucky but I think that there was always this sense of I want something and I have no idea how to get it. And I think a lot of people feel that way where it's it's just like what I mean I know you like being the gatekeepers gatekeepers and this sense of like yeah I think feeling like I don't know what I don't know I think is a big theme of your 20s of like I just don't even know what I'm supposed to learn and I will do anything to learn it but I don't even know what I'm supposed to learn. Yeah. So yeah, I you know for in my career for example like I loved being in writing and editorial but there was such a sense of like I'm missing something but I have no idea what it is and I have no idea how to get it. And what I learned was like if I was really true to myself long enough which again sounds cheesy but it was true. Like if I put in the work to feel good about myself if I put in the time to be like I show up with integrity. I am proud of my actions. I am loyal to the people that I care about like show up in all those right ways. I found that the opportunities presented themselves and like the manifestation call it whatever you want. But I really feel like I manifested by accident because I showed up for myself in that. It sounds like you really focused on your values over like titles or what you had. Yes. That's such a good way to say it. I I I saw a lot of friends, especially, you know, at this point, like we're talking about where it's like everybody wants a certain career. There's a lot of pressure. So, I don't blame anyone for feeling this in your 20s, but I saw a lot of friends who were very much caught up in like, oh, I'm not going to take that internship because like I don't I'm going to go get coffee when they're like 21. And I'm like, what you have to do? Yeah. Or like get really caught up in like I'm going to take the higher paying job, which like no shame to that whatsoever. A lot of people are in the position where they have to choose that. I was a privilege where I was like, I can take I could be an editorial and make little money and it's fine. So, that's a privilege to be able to be like, I'm going to choose a career path that's not going to be the most financially successful. That is a privilege. Um, but I think I definitely Yeah, I've always cared more about like I want to enjoy my life and that was always my guiding light. I feel the most fulfillment in getting to connect with women. So that was always the drive for me. And I think that when you are in alignment in that way where you're like, I know what my north star is. I know maybe I don't know how to get to what I think I want, but I know at least what that north star is. Like I know that I want to feel fulfilled. I want to feel like I'm living a big life. I want to feel excited in my dayto-day. I want to be able to talk to women and feel like I'm doing something and I'm helping them. And you have that northstar and you follow that. I think that's where opportunities always come up. Yes. So, to circle back to your question about staying true to myself. Yes. I love that question. Um,

I can't think of a great answer because it was such a great question. I would say that I, this may be like a weird answer, but empathy for me was always the guiding light and is what I think is the greatest skill that anyone can have. I think that when we have empathy, we feel happier in ourselves. And so, I think that like empathy is a skill. You know, it's not something people are born with. It's something that we work. And um I grew up, my mom is extremely empathetic. And so, I think Shirley instilled that skill in me and then instilled in the practice in me to, you know, just for like a little example, you know, when you come home and you're like, "Mom, this girl did this to me." And we're like, "This teacher gave me a B." She was always like, "Well, what do you think they're dealing with? Like, what's going on with them?" So, like little things like that that really instilled this sense of empathy. And again, I'm not trying to sit here and be like, "I'm so empathetic." Because empathy is a skill. Like, it's something that we're working on. Like, it's a practice. So, why I say that empathy allowed me to feel true to myself is because I think focusing a lot on how other people feel allowed me to not care so much about how other people think of me. I love that. So I was able to feel like, oh, I can actually just like do what I want and be who I am. And that's obviously again a practice. It took time. Like I didn't just come out of the womb. It's like, woo, I'm confident. Go me. But when I empathize with other people and I focus more on what other people feel than what I am worried about them thinking of me, it allowed me to I like to me that's like the secret to confidence that people don't talk about. So kind of a long that is such a smart sorry I'm but that is so smart and I have yet to hear someone put that together in that way and we all agree with that 100%. I it what you're talking about takes me back to when I was in my mid teens. I think I was about 16 and we were all competitive dancers at the time and the personalities we worked with, you know, they could be tumultuous and unpredictable and I remember once, you know, the one of my dance teachers being really rude to me and and immediately my mind went to what did I do? What's wrong with what did I do? And then I read a book about um it was the four agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. Yes. And one of the lessons was take nothing personally. Mhm. And then I start to reframe it and think, "Oh, she's probably having a really rough day." Which is that is such a good example. Exactly what I'm talking about. Yes. Yeah. You you stop taking I mean that's the best way to say you stop taking things personal. And I think there's also a sense of um like we naturally as human beings are so selffocused like we're you know we are the main characters of our lives as we should be. But then when we are in our own head too long, like I notice, for example, if I'm getting really into like, my body doesn't look good today, like I don't feel good about myself. Oh my god, my makeup looks bad. Oh my god, my hair's awful. I realize like I've spent too much time thinking about myself. I need to like start getting outside of myself. I know it's true. And so it's it's um noticing like that things aren't personal, that other everything reflection that other people are putting on you is just a reflection of themselves for sure. And there's this sense of like you just stop thinking so much about yourself, right? You're just able to just like be by yourself and not be so in your head about things because you're spending that precious brain power thinking about other people. I just think as well it it transforms the negative feelings you're having towards someone else into something a little more positive. Like I used to get annoyed or frustrated or angry at someone if they mistreated me. And yeah, like you can feel those things, but reframe it. What are they going through? And then it kind of dissipates all those negative feelings, forms your experience more. And I think it gives you so much clarity. And like you said, Josie, the key to confidence is that it changes your self-consciousness. Yes. So then it's like the consciousness becomes about what is this person think like where are they coming from as well. Yeah. My my dad when we were young young kids, he taught us this term. He said think of people as pets. So personal emotional em sorry personal emotional trainers and so he taugh us this thing where he was like okay every difficult or good experience you have with a person you're getting trained emotionally and you're you're training how to deal with different personalities and deal with different types of people and that also goes back to if this person's treating you a certain way like a teacher when we were kids you know we'd get frustrated with a teacher okay like they're having a bad day like we were saying and then and that just trains you on how to deal with that situation so you at least understand. Yeah. I used to feel blindsided when I was younger of like, oh my gosh, what did I do here? This is crazy. Like, and then, you know, that transformation of focusing on empathy became, oh, okay, it's not about me. And I think it's so important to learn that as you get into your excuse me, as you get into your 20s, cuz you're entering the workplace. So, yeah, you can talk back to a teacher. You can I mean, they'll get upset with you, but it affects your adult life way more. you might not get a job. The actions you make in this stage in life are so much more important. It's more high stakes high. Same thing with dating, you know, like and it's not to say, you know, that you have to be, you know, it's not about like this person can treat me like go off, keep doing it. Like that's not empathy. Like that's just having no selfrespect. That's different. Empathy is like, oh, I can understand that other people think differently than me and that other people have [ __ ] that I'm not going to put up with. Like I'm talking to this guy that's an an [ __ ] I'm not going to like let him keep being an [ __ ] I'm going to walk away. But I'm not going to feel like he's being an [ __ ] because I'm the worst. I want to feel like he's an [ __ ] because he's got [ __ ] going on. And I can walk away from that and not feel the burden that a lot of people feel of I did something wrong. Exactly. Even with friendships, too. If you don't feel like you're being treated well, I did that a lot with friendships and I can recognize this person's not necessarily a bad person, but I don't feel great when I'm around them. So, it's okay for me to walk away even if I understand where they're or limit limit your time with them as much as you can. Yes. Sometimes if you work with them, you can't, you know, are you talking about me? We work together, guys. No, no, no, no. I'm not talking about the two sisters sitting beside me. It's like we kind of work together. You're just like at me next time. Guys, my face if you're going to say it. Oh my god. No, this is other work experiences. Ava, I like you. Okay, I'm doing for the for the guys. We're friends. I keep putting my nose on this. I'm like I know really is like in there right there. Yeah, but it's so true. Yeah, it's it's I think that that's a huge lesson that when I talk to other people about their experience in their 20s, I think sadly friend lessons is obviously like a big one. Like that was one of the hardest lessons I've learned in my life was like, oh, the friend that I thought was a certain way actually isn't and actually changed. like this girl that I've had for so long is not what I thought she was going to be for my life. And like I think that that is a because people change so much in their 20s that I think is a lesson that like sadly most of us will deal with in this decade outrowing out friendsship breakups. Yeah. It's the worst cuz it's also like we're supposed to be having this problem with men like us. Like you want friends and it's like I'll be good. I have my girls. Yeah. It's like that's what it's supposed to be. That's what it And yes, exactly. Like that's what it is for so many instances and then there's this one friend and you're like wait but let's say why why are we putting each other off? Literally doing literally I wanted to ask if there is a podcast or book or life experience that you feel like really shaped you in your 20s. Ooh, I I really have I have so many books. Please give us a list. Okay. All right, I'll get on my list. I would say probably the one that I think back to a lot that was a huge aha moment for me that I have reread a lot um is Glenn and Doyle, Untamed and a lot of her books. Have you guys read Glenn Doyle at all? I have. Have you? I've heard of She reads a lot more about Oh, you're the reader. Yeah. Daughter. I'm the I'm the the fiction reader. Listen, fiction can be really transformative. Apparently, it reduces anxiety. Yes. Like I think I feel that Oh, it is. It's true. And I swear to God, it works. It like that's a whole other tangent, but I really agree. I was very, you know, like I said, I was very toxic creativity. I'm only reading for self-improvement. And then a couple years ago, I got a library card and I'm like, "Oh my god, I could get any book that I want. The world is my oyster. The world is my literal oyster." And yes, so I totally agree. Glennon Doyle. Um, so her book Untamed, she's like writes essays and she writes non-fiction about her life. And um, this idea has kind of become more mainstream. So this might might not seem as like wo mind of time, but when I read it, which was 2019 or 2020, okay, it was um like the premise of the book is basically like unchaining yourself. And so it's called Untamed because she talks about all of the ways in which like especially as women, especially, you know, in a heterosexual society, like whatever it is, we have all these chains on us and all of these ways that we have learned to squeeze into tiny boxes. And that to me was like this wo like aha moment. Like there's one moment in there where she's talking to her daughter and I forget what it is. Her daughter's really young at the time and she's like, you know, I don't want to disappoint you. And Glenna Doyle writes and says to her daughter, she's writing this. Um, your job is to disappoint as many people as possible in order to avoid disappointing yourself. And that to me was like, damn. Wow. Speak to my soul. Like, yes. So, that was the first time that I was like, oh, there's like caging like just as women, we experience. And so I mean even just as a person like it it's obviously greater for women but everyone has these caging on them of like you have to fit into these boxes. And so it kind of launched this journey for me for lack of better word cuz I hate the word journey of like uncaging myself and using that as another kind of call to help other women uncag themselves too. I love that cuz it's all about making yourself proud. Like this is your life. Yes. And like disappointing other people is not a bad thing. It's actually good. like how you know you're on the right path. No, I love I really I've never heard of that book. Yeah, guys, read it. It's so good. All of her books are really amazing. They're like thinkers. They make you think. Yeah, they're great. Is there any belief you had in your 20s that turned out to be completely wrong? Oh my god, yes. Not a good time to talk about it. Um h there's so many things. I mean the biggest one like I talked about was I had to put in a lot of time in order to be successful. Yes. And learning that that was actually holding me back. That was like stopping my flow, my creativity, my process. Like I was blocking myself from opportunities because I was feeling so burdened by time. Um so that one like I already talked about was big. Um, there are so many things I feel like such what I talk about on my podcast is so much of like exactly that that I'm like what do I talk about? Like there are so many things I'm like wait you know it's like when someone asks like your favorite movie and you're like watching movies ever. Um, but I would say a lot with relationships for sure. I think that you know I had this expectation of like people being perfect and that's like something that in therapy I've like worked on because with my fiance. We've been together for eight years. And it was a lot of like, you know, you're leaving your socks on the floor. That's [ __ ] up. Like, you know, like I couldn't like get out of my house. So, it was a lot of um I think I had this expectation of like when you meet your person, it's like the stars align and like there's never an issue. And I think I learned it's actually not about as much that they're perfect cuz obviously duh, no one is. Hello. But also, it says so much of how they respond when there is a conflict. So, I learned how important that it's almost like it's not whether or not you have conflict, it's how the conflict looks and how you handle it is what determines compatibility. That was a huge lesson I had. I love that. Um I feel like there's been so many we feel we feel that we work relationship as sisters. We talk about that even it's like not whether or not we have conflict, it's how we deal with it. How you deal with it. Yeah. We have we've created our own system of communicating with each other and it's funny cuz we still live at home. So our parents will like yeah we have to learn it. I remember reading books like cuz we started working together when Aanel were 13 and I was 16. So like we're teenagers at this point. We don't know how to communicate. You're preteen and I remember Aanel and I would always get into these conflicts and we're like why are we here? Like how did we even get here? What happened? So I like I remember one time we went on vac a family vacation. And I just like read this book called Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. And it was about like he was a hostage negotiator, but it taught a lot. I've heard of that. Yeah. Yeah. Communicating with empathy, which is really cool. And how that like disarms conflict. So the whole time I'm just like reading this book and then like they had like prompts to ask people and I just was like prompt and the whole we just using your test. I was like, you're using me little dare I have rats. Well, you say what is this? Totally. It's asking what and how questions and you respond with it sounds like, it seems like, it looks like, it feels like because So you're validating that. Yes. And you're not used to Yeah. Like we all don't even think about it, but it has diffused so much conflict for us. Yeah. And cuz we're not trying to fight like we're like we're trying to communicate something. I think the conflict was work based. Yeah. And I think at the end of the day, if you're all on the same page and you all want to come to a an outcome, a positive conclusion to like it's not like you just as long as your goal isn't just to like rile up each other and fight. If you want to get to the problem, your problem is peace. If your root if you are all on the same page that your goal is peace, then you'll get there. Well, it's us versus the problem. You versus the problem. Us versus each other. I mean, as you guys as sisters, I can't even imagine like especially when I was 13. What I was fighting with my sister like who's tough? I know, right? You know, we did that. We still do that. I say I'm going to say at 13, we always wanted to do it, but since A and I were, you know, at that age, 3 years is a big difference. Now, it does feel it feels like we're the same age. But at the time, it's a really big difference because Maddie was 16 and she wanted to get moving where A and I were like in middle school and I was like, "Maddie, let me stop." I was like, "I don't want to write this right now. Can I go hang out with my friends?" Like, I was like, "I have crushes I'm dealing with. I have drama." Like you're likes to like play on the playground when you have like we had recess. Yes. Like I got more [ __ ] to worry about. Okay. Like Johnny's in the cafeteria talking [ __ ] Like I am more [ __ ] is going down in middle school. Going down. Oh my god. Like who's grinding at the dance? Like there's so many important things to worry about. So much going on. No. And then when we got into high school it was like a and I dialed in way more. And then like when we were 16 and 19 like we that was where A and I kind of came into like our like I was like oh I'm productive and I can do things. call the airport dad. When she turned 16, she became I became an airport dad. Like she handles all the travel now. I do. I'm airport. The fact I mean I know I told you this before we started, but the fact that you guys have been like working and like doing [ __ ] when you were teenagers. Yeah, we were crazy. I don't know why we were doing that. Like were your parents like really entrepreneurial or like Yes. Okay. So you like Oh, that's like what you So our parents worked um corporate jobs in their 20s and they did not like it. So the opportunities we got, they're like just run, like just go do it. They're like do anything. They obviously well they said if you listen they're like if that's what you want to do then do it. But we all fell in love with screenwriting through like we discovered it through acting fell in love with screenwriting and we're like oh my god we want to write stories and stuff. My parents were like go do it. That's amazing. My mom wrote wrote children's books when when we were younger so like her she did and like her books would be in our library at our school. Wait, I have to give you so I can look up. Oh my god. I brought my little nieces and nephew. We have a million copies at home. We could send you some. So special. Yeah. But so we grew up in like she was very creative and she'd always be filming. She did a flash mob. She filmed this like flash mob and got like 4 million views. She was doing things like the coolest person ever. I know she's obsessed with her and we love her and everyone loves her. But I'm like she's my mom. Yeah. back. How many people say to her, they're like, "Oh my god, you're like a mother to me." And I'm like, "Uhuh, she's mine." Yeah. You're like, "Back off. That girl is mine. That girl is my mother. I'm her blood." Yeah. Back off. You didn't come from her womb. Get out of here. Get out of here. Yeah. But so we had a lot of creative influence. What about for your parents? Like were what was like did they put any pressures on you? Were they super supportive? Like what was that like? I feel very privileged of like how you guys feel where I saw friends and I don't know if it was like the area I lived in or if this is like a universal thing or you know but I saw a lot of girls especially that grew up with the pressure from their moms of like oh you've gained a little weight you know or like that kind of stuff and we're like oh you you know are you sure you want to go to homecoming with that guy or and my parents the biggest things is like they were so good at being like like I still to this day think that my mom's obsessed with everything I'm obsessed with and you know like any interest I had and same thing with my siblings and we have had very different weird uh interest over my mom is was so good about being like I'm really interested in that too and so they definitely had similar to you guys like that sense of like you can pursue anything you want um and you you know instill that confidence I mean my mom never has commented on the way that I look it was always like, you know, you're so talented, you're so nice, you're so, you know, it was always that focus and which seems so like duh, but knowing how our friends were raised, we're lucky. Like it's and I feel so privileged because of the parents I've had. You know, my dad was also very much of like a uh stable person. like he was just so had so much integrity that he I learned a lot about how to have integrity and loyalty in work and how to also be really consistent in your work but not make it your life. I mean he was so good about being like oh you can be successful and also he came home every night and washed the dishes and you know what I mean? So I learned so much from my parents and they they had no pressure in the sense of like you have to have a certain kind of career or you have to make a certain money. actor very much like you don't need money of like a um like when I would talk to my dad about like oh I didn't get you know the raise that I wanted he'd be like so what you're in your 20s like you're not trying to support like three kids yeah exactly my parents say that to me too it's fine rather than I think a lot of people feel the sense of you know yeah you you should leave if they're not I mean that's true that's I don't want yeah stay yeah like sure that's good advice but I what I have noticed noticed with my friends is there's a lot of feelings of entitlement of like I don't have loyalty, but I don't want to say that because especially as women, we're in a work force where we are getting the short end of the stick. And so like 100% we got to like get our bag, go after it, like ask for what you deserve, but also I think that there's something to be said about loyalty and leading with again empathy and integrity. And my parents very much taught me that. So long answer to your question. I feel really privileged to have had like I credit all of my confidence, all of my creativity to my parents and a lot of people did not have that privilege, you know, starting off through this self-improvement journey in a different place. So I kind of look at it like I want to do all the testing and I want to do all the growth so that I can like give people the feel when I started off if that well we feel that way too and that's partly why I think we wanted to do this podcast is not everyone has a support system or and and like part of why we want to do this is to give people advice but also for people to not feel alone in their experience with this kind of stuff cuz our parents are again super supportive. They've taught us I feel like everything Kids don't get any guidance and they are raised in households that are not safe places. So they're not able to explore what do I like, you know, like that's the last thing on their mind. And your childhood is obvious like the most formative thing. So it's like how do we take people that didn't have the experiences we have and like use our privilege of having supportive parents to provide people with tools so that they get to the place of fulfillment and happiness that I almost feel like was kind of given to me. I mean yes I have to do hard work as you guys do you know like nothing's given to us but yeah there was a sense of like the foundations there. Yes. And like it is a privilege to have parents that are supportive%. And so like how do we use that to help people that didn't have that privilege? I I have a quick question about moving to LA. Yeah. Why did you want to go and what what was that like going from Chicago to LA? I am one of the annoying people that was like, I just want to live in LA. Like I've always wanted to live here. The weather, I get it. The weather is so great. But there was something about it like when I was looking at colleges, I didn't end up going to school in LA. I ended up actually going to school in Florida. But I in high school was like I'm for sure going to LA. I just always loved California. I don't you know, it's one of those things. I'm like, I swear my last life was lived in LA. I swear Hollywood movie actress. You know what? I see that. Do you? I do. I I'm like I swear I was not to give myself so much credit, but I like need attention. I love LA. like all the signs are there, you know? So, um, so I just have always loved LA and I always knew I saw like a bigger life for myself. So, I I just I I just always knew I would end up in LA. And so, I after school moved back to Chicago to start my career at the Every Girl. And I just again it was like I was like it's a matter of time till I moved. Like it was nice to as we were talking about before the recording like I lived with my parents for a year and saved up money so that I could make the move. Exactly. So, that was Thank God. Um, but I just kind of knew. And then did you have a second part of the question that I forgot? No, I I I'm actually curious. Did your boy Were you with your boyfriend at the time? Was it long distance? Yes. So, we Yeah, cuz we started dating in college. He actually moved to LA. He moved to LA first. I say that he called me in LA because we were both very much like after college he stayed in um Florida for and worked for a year cuz he graduated grad school a year before I graduated college. So he kind of like stayed in LA and we were both in the same page of we're either going to New York or LA and we were very open to like one of us might move to New York, one of us might move to LA that's totally fine work. Like it was not at all like let's try to move somewhere together. Obviously that would be ideal but we were very open to like we both were driven and we also had no doubts like so we like let's just if we have to live across the country fine like it's not going to be fun but like let's do it. So but we kind of both had the same realization of like New York is just crazy like they would eat me alive. So we both kind of had the realization his aunt lived in Burbank like lived here in LA. So he kind of came and stayed with her, got a job here, and then I came soon after. Um, so that made it obviously so much easier because I had him. Um, and then I had to, you know, like make friends from scratch and everything and that was fun. I think that that's honestly like a really good thing because it made me check in with like who do I actually want as friends? Whereas up until that point of your life, you're very much like fall into friendships. Not in a bad way. That's just like you know you're friends with the people in your class and then you go to college and you're friends with the people in your dorm floor whatever it is where you go to college you were friends with the people that you first meet like so it was actually a good point to be like oh I don't have a friend who do I want like what would be a fulfilling friendship for me like what kind of traits do I want to look for? So, I think that that honestly is like a really good thing for anybody at any point of their life to like you don't have to move somewhere fresh, but to be like if you don't feel fully satisi satisfied in your friendships, be like, "Okay, let me I can start over and like think about what friendships do I want and start searching for those." Right. And I love too how you said that you don't really need a reason to go to a city. You just felt called to the city and you just Exactly. Yeah. You don't need a reason. Yeah. The calling. She answered the call. answer. Marilyn Monroe, literally. Yes, I was Marilyn. Thank you. But um yeah, and coming from Chicago. Okay. Oh, this is what I was going to say. So, what I loved about LA because I know everyone's like, "Oh, yeah, it's the weather." It wasn't actually the the weather. Now, I'm a baby and I'm like cold, like, but at the time, I like loved fall. I loved winter. So, it wasn't actually the weather so much as what I have been so in love with about LA is I don't foresee myself being able to live the big life anywhere else because of the way people think here. Like I always use this example of, you know, a couple years ago when I was doing so many different things. I was a health coach. I had started the podcast. I was when I was in LA and people would ask like, "Oh, what do you do?" I'd be like, "I'm a podcast host." Because that's what I that was like that's my vision. That's what I want. when I was back in Chicago, I'd be like, "Oh, I am an editor for a magazine." Like, it's a different um and I didn't even notice I was doing that, but you just get like if you were to say you were a podcast host in Chicago, I don't know how it is for you guys, but people would be like, you know, it's a bit flaky. Okay. Okay. Whereas here, it's so cool. Like every like you could go meet a bartender and they'd be like, "Yeah, I'm actually like a burlass dancer on the side. I'm working on producing an album or and I just love like there's something about the energy here that is so creative and the fact that dreams feel real whereas everywhere else it feels like oh a dream is something that maybe yeah maybe one day but like probably not like we have to do the real thing like I always say that I always had a dream and all everyone else when they're little have dreams and I never grew out of my dream you know a lot of people grow out of it you guys never grew out of your dream people in LA don't grow out of their dream. And I just I I love you like being surrounded by that. Loved being Yeah. Exactly. So that's the big difference I'd say from, you know, not just in Chicago, but I think that's like anywhere, you know. I really think that that's how anywhere really is is you grow up and you learn, oh, I have to have a steady job. And I was like, oh, I don't need a steady job. You guys were like, I don't need a study. I don't need the last thing on my mind. What? Getting a consistency. Who needs money? You're like, "Yeah, not for me." Yeah. No, I was dwindling. I'm fine. You know what I say? We always say this though is that everyone has their own version of living their best life. Yes. And I'm like, listen, if Chicago, like some people probably like love Chicago and that's their vibe and then like you know, like you like LA, that's where you know, you feel the most inspired. So, some people look at what we do and say, "Why the [ __ ] would I actually never actually worked No, we worked a serving job last year. met some like such fun people there. So many fun people. But there was one girl we were talking to and she was in school to be a paramedic. And I don't know who you're talking about, but you'll you'll know. But but I think she was in school to be a paramedic and she was like I'm like for me like anything health related and being like under pressure to save someone. I'm like oh my god like I don't want to do that. Like I could never do that. And then I was telling her like I want to be a screenwriter and she's like that sounds like my worst nightmare. be like, "Well, yours sounds my worst right now." But it's like funny like it's like everyone has their own version of your best and like thank God because imagine like a world where everybody just wanted to be the same thing. Like we wouldn't we wouldn't have doctors but we would have doctors. There'd be a bunch of people making movies but we didn't have any doctors people like us who existed. Oh yeah. The world would be on fire people. Yeah. No, we don't run the world. No, we absolutely don't. And thank God for that. Yeah. Exactly. We don't want to. And that's the beauty of the world. Yeah. It's like and it's just about like chasing that like little siren call in you and it's going to feel different from everyone else's siren call. And I think that's what's so cool. Exactly. I really love Josie. It feels like your 20s has been you've answered the call to adventure of your 20s. Yes. That's my Israel bio. I answered the call. It's so true. I I I want kids. So I look at it like now's the time where I'm like kind of I also feel like I don't really like how we have this idea as a society like as soon as you have kids you have to have like the buttoned up like have I don't even want to say that you can still live you can still Our mom was writing children's books when she was pregnant and had like little toddlers running around. No seriously I feel like yeah you have this idea like you have to have everything figured out. So I don't even want to say that but I at least have more freedom and I have at least have less pressure. Like the 20s are the time to blow [ __ ] up. Let's do it, you know. I agree. Set everything on fire, guys. Set your freaking life on fire. I know. Guys, it's been so fun. I can I can tell. I can't believe it's done already. I know. We'll have to do a part two. I would love a part two. And we come back to LA. Yeah. No, we have to. I love the food in LA personally. I'm glad. I'm a health nut, so like healthy foods I just love. And there's I mean a lot. Have you guys been to Elephante? No. No. Okay. All right. This is Everyone is anyone's listening that lives in LA is going to be like, "Give me a break." Cuz it's like the most like influencer vibe. But I think you have to go because it's really good healthy food. It's like Mediterranean. And it's just like right near the ocean. It's not too far from where you guys are here. So, I think you got to try. I mean, there's always a big wait. So, maybe when are you here tomorrow? We're here till tomorrow, but we have a big wait before we go to the airport. That'll be on the list. Yeah. I feel like when I see there's like so many great places. Oh my god. I know. I could give you a long list of like healthyish food. That's like obviously so LA. Well, no. It's like healthy and tasty. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm not going to waste my time on a salad. No. No. Like at least give me like a creamy dressing. I had to I got this farm to table chicken wrap that's like like Asian inspired food. I was like this is delicious. From where is what's it? I forget the name. It's literally just across the street. Yeah. It's like it was so good for the weekend. I mean, that's what I love about LA is like you really can like healthy food is so much more accessible and I say that and like Airwan has like a $20 smoothie. So like access we love Awan though. Listen, you can't not. You just got to know. Every friend that comes to visit is like, I want to go to Awan. I'm like, it's a grocery store. Like it's just it's just a grocery store. For me, like Trader Joe's is like on a pedest pedestal for me. I love it. I love Trader Joe's. Well, Trader Joe's I get because like you could they have their own specific stuff and you know dare I say the prices aren't terrible. No, the prices are good. The prices are good. Even getting lunch there, it's good. It's like $5 sushi for lunch. Yeah, it's way I mean especially anything around here like it's the cheapest thing. Oh, this has been so fun. Thank you so much. Oh my god. Thank you for coming. Thank you everyone for listening and I'm sure you enjoyed this cuz Josie was wonderful and hopefully we'll have her on again soon. We'll put all her links in the show notes. Yes. And yeah, thank you again, Josie. Thank you for having me. It was so wonderful. You guys are great. I can't wait to see where the podcast goes next. Bye.